Ranged Sneak Attack
- Thread starter cmanos
- Start date
"Aware" has no meaning.
A rogue can apply sneak attack damage whenever the following conditions are met:
This also means that every attack that those conditions apply to are also met.
Not how "aware" would have no bearing.
In a surprise round the target and rouge are both aware of each other.
The rogue goes first.
The target is considered flat-footed until he acts.
Being flat-footed denies a character of his Dex bonus to AC.
Hence the target is susceptable to sneak attack damage.
A rogue can apply sneak attack damage whenever the following conditions are met:
This also means that every attack that those conditions apply to are also met.
Not how "aware" would have no bearing.
In a surprise round the target and rouge are both aware of each other.
The rogue goes first.
The target is considered flat-footed until he acts.
Being flat-footed denies a character of his Dex bonus to AC.
Hence the target is susceptable to sneak attack damage.
yes in that specific case. I'm asking a broader question. MY DM and another player believe that all a rogue needs to to to get his/her sneak attack damage is to hit the foe with a missile weapon from 30-ft or closer. I maintain they must be unable to defend themselves (Aka flat-footed). They allow it even when the foe is not flat-footed against the plainly visible rogue, as long as they are closer than 30'.
Aluvial
Explorer
That's not right. The conditions are stated above.
I wonder if a creature is denied their Dex bonus from a rogue who is hiding? In this case, does a rogue who is shooting from some type of cover get to sneak attack?
Aluvial
Thatwackyned
First Post
They would get Sneak attack for the 1 round, due to "Surprising" the target. They would need to hide again, at a -20 to hide, inorder to get a Sneak attack on the next round.
That DM is allowing for a MinMax player to take the game out of control.
The Rules Compendium clarified that hiding makes the rogue "invisibile".
Being invisibile is a condition that denies the target his Dex Mod to AC - hence sneak attack.
That is not how I read your original question about whether or not the rogue needed his opponent to be unaware of his attacker.
You said no to a sneak attack if the target is aware.
The rules in the PHB (and SRD) are very, very clear on what conditions must be met for a rogue to get the benefits from a sneak attack. There is no amibiguity there. Any other set of rules are house-rules and thus you are already in some other place.
I wonder if he is stuck on the 2nd ed version and still thinking of back stabbing and having "facing".
Nonlethal Force
First Post
And, this would also apply to the first round of combat so long as the opponent hasn't yet acted. So if the rogue beats the opponent in Init and gets to actin a surprise round, the rogue could technically get in two sneak attacks before the opponent is not flatfooted. That can really bite for the opponent.
The reason I bring this up is because in most circumstances the opponent would be "aware" of the rogue after the first attack if not before. Thus, awareness has no meaning in deciphering the mechanics. The most simply way of doing sneak attack is asking two questions, and this has been said before:
1. Is the rogue flanking?
2. Is the rogue's opponent denied his DEX bonus for any reason?
To further expand:
In melee if a rogue if an opponent is not flat-footed against a rogue the only two ways to get sneak attack damage would be to flank or to feint. (Unless the target in question is a barbarian, then you have a much harder time of it).
Feinting at range is possible I believe with the right feat.
Under no circumstances should you let a ranged character get sneak attack damage simply for being close. It's against the rules and unbalancing!
Consider my 5th level human rogue - his attacks do 1d6 + 3 points of damage. (1d6 for shortbow, +1 magical composite shortbow, +2 str)
He uses rapid-shot for 2 attacks per round and has a maximum damage of 20 excluding crits. This is within the norm for a 5th level character (in my campaigns at least).
Now let's add in the 3D6 points of sneak attack that he shouldn't be getting every round.
He uses rapidshot for 2 attacks per round and has a maximum damage of 38 excluding crits. This is almost double the damage than the expected value for a 5th level character.
It will only get worse as the levels go up and he gets a bow of speed and extra attacks.
20th level characters easily can hit with 3 or more attacks per round and a 20th level rogue gets 10D6 sneak attack per hit.
Nip this in the bud!
In melee if a rogue if an opponent is not flat-footed against a rogue the only two ways to get sneak attack damage would be to flank or to feint. (Unless the target in question is a barbarian, then you have a much harder time of it).
Feinting at range is possible I believe with the right feat.
Under no circumstances should you let a ranged character get sneak attack damage simply for being close. It's against the rules and unbalancing!
Consider my 5th level human rogue - his attacks do 1d6 + 3 points of damage. (1d6 for shortbow, +1 magical composite shortbow, +2 str)
He uses rapid-shot for 2 attacks per round and has a maximum damage of 20 excluding crits. This is within the norm for a 5th level character (in my campaigns at least).
Now let's add in the 3D6 points of sneak attack that he shouldn't be getting every round.
He uses rapidshot for 2 attacks per round and has a maximum damage of 38 excluding crits. This is almost double the damage than the expected value for a 5th level character.
It will only get worse as the levels go up and he gets a bow of speed and extra attacks.
20th level characters easily can hit with 3 or more attacks per round and a 20th level rogue gets 10D6 sneak attack per hit.
Nip this in the bud!
Constance Clochard
First Post
No, unless there's a specific feat that's allowing it:
If the rogue has DeadEyeShot (which assumes Point Blank & Precise Shot & BAB+4) maybe every attack with a ranged weapon from 30ft is a sneak attack. Dead Eye Shot requires the foe to be in melee with an ally and for the Rogue to ready their shot for when their ally HITS the foe. Once the foe has been hit, it's considered flatfooted (because of the feat) and the Rogue gets in a sneak attack.
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