Ranged Sneak Attack

[irdeggman]

If mere "weaponlike" items qualify, then something plainly described as a "splash weapon" would seem to more than meet the qualifications.

It also states "within ready reach" - how often are potions carried in a way that is considered "easy reach" (you need special equipment to qualify for this condition) - that is essentially what the HH is doing, IMO.

 

[aboyd]

It also states "within ready reach" - how often are potions carried in a way that is considered "easy reach" (you need special equipment to qualify for this condition) - that is essentially what the HH is doing, IMO.

You're right, it does say "within easy reach" -- which is what I'm suggesting that the Haversack is doing. And it looks like you're also suggesting that, if HH is supposed to refer to the Haversack. So if you noted the condition and then noted the Haversack satisfies that condition, I'm not sure what your point is? Perhaps you might clarify?

 

[irdeggman]

You're right, it does say "within easy reach" -- which is what I'm suggesting that the Haversack is doing. And it looks like you're also suggesting that, if HH is supposed to refer to the Haversack. So if you noted the condition and then noted the Haversack satisfies that condition, I'm not sure what your point is? Perhaps you might clarify?

The problem is that I don't consider a "splash weapon" a weapon for this sort of thing.

If it is so considered then any similar type item (flask, vial, etc.) would likewise be considered one. Hence quick draw would work. It is pretty obvious that the rules were not meant to cover quick drawing potions of cure light wounds. But your logic would force it to apply to those as well.

 

[Shin Okada]

We do not need to conclude that flasks of splash weapons are similar to flasks of potions. Flasks of splash weapons are made to be thrown. And they don't need to have cork or plug which can be opened easily. On the other hand, flasks of potions are not made for throwing, and made to be opened for drinking the contents.

 

[aboyd]

The problem is that I don't consider a "splash weapon" a weapon for this sort of thing.

That's fine, but I wouldn't consider that RAW. It sounds more like a house rule. But if it makes you feel better, you're welcome to consider my completely opposite interpretation as a house rule too.

 

[irdeggman]

We do not need to conclude that flasks of splash weapons are similar to flasks of potions. Flasks of splash weapons are made to be thrown. And they don't need to have cork or plug which can be opened easily. On the other hand, flasks of potions are not made for throwing, and made to be opened for drinking the contents.

Not true. Oil comes in flasks which can be used as a splash weapon. If they are desgined to be easily breakable then that means a character carrying flasks of oil (the only method buyable per the PHB) to use in his lamp then he is subject to ready breakage.

Oil: A pint of oil burns for 6 hours in a lantern. You can use a flask of oil as a splash weapon. Use the rules for alchemist’s fire, except that it takes a full round action to prepare a flask with a fuse. Once it is thrown, there is a 50% chance of the flask igniting successfully.

You can pour a pint of oil on the ground to cover an area 5 feet square, provided that the surface is smooth. If lit, the oil burns for 2 rounds and deals 1d3 points of fire damage to each creature in the area.

I believe the text on these types of things (all of the ones in the SRD that I can find - holy water, flasks of oil, alchemical fire, etc.) say thet they can be used as a splash weapon (or you can throw as a spalsh weapon) not that they are a splash weapon. Which leads credence to my interpretation of what a splash weapon is (not an actual weapon but more of a delivery or use).

Why would a flask that is supposed to be broken be treated any differently than a flask (or vial) that is not? They are roughly the same size and shape, require the same amount of effort to handle, etc. That is the can of worms that is opened by going down that path.

 

[Umbran]

That's fine, but I wouldn't consider that RAW. It sounds more like a house rule.

aboyd, I don't think you meant any offense here, but you provide me with a fine opportunity to remind folks about something. Sorry to use you as a springboard.

While we have separate forums for House Rules and published rules, we recognize the line between rules-interpretation and house-rules is vague, at best, and occasionally non-existent.

Frequently in the past folks used the "that's not RAW, that's a house rule" line as a way to dismiss other opinions. As in, "That's a house rule, so I don't have to consider you're ideas valid in the Rules forum." Trying to dismiss by pigeonholing, rather than by reasonable discussion of merit, is rude, and is apt to gain moderator attention.

For more detail on the guidelines for not cheesing people off in rules discussions, see the special notes on civility in the Rules Forums.

Thank you for your time and attention. We now return you to your regular discussion.

 

[Shin Okada]

Not true. Oil comes in flasks which can be used as a splash weapon. If they are desgined to be easily breakable then that means a character carrying flasks of oil (the only method buyable per the PHB) to use in his lamp then he is subject to ready breakage.

Breakability is not my point.

Flasks of splash weapons and vials of potions are largely different in size (and shape, I guess). All the splash weapon flasks in PHB weigh 1 pound or more (with contents). On the other hand, a potion vial contains only 1 ounce or so of liquid. I think such a small vials is more difficult to handle as throwing weapons. They will be too small and too thin to be used like a Mortov cocktail.

 

[irdeggman]

aboyd, I don't think you meant any offense here, but you provide me with a fine opportunity to remind folks about something. Sorry to use you as a springboard.

While we have separate forums for House Rules and published rules, we recognize the line between rules-interpretation and house-rules is vague, at best, and occasionally non-existent.

Just to weigh in - I didn't take it as a brush aside or put down. Just a statement of "difference of interpretation".

 

[irdeggman]

Breakability is not my point.

Flasks of splash weapons and vials of potions are largely different in size (and shape, I guess). All the splash weapon flasks in PHB weigh 1 pound or more (with contents). On the other hand, a potion vial contains only 1 ounce or so of liquid. I think such a small vials is more difficult to handle as throwing weapons. They will be too small and too thin to be used like a Mortov cocktail.

But then they are easier to manipulate and thus make more sense to be able to use quick draw on then - which was my point.

If a splash weapon is considered a "weapon like object" and thus eligible for quick draw benefits then so are potions - which is clearly not the intent.