Ranged Sneak Attack
- Thread starter cmanos
- Start date
Aren't you limited to just 1 attack/round with the sling because it normally takes a move action to reload? Seems a bow is still the better route...
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
If you have a nice DM that allows you to take Rapid Reload on a sling, it can work, otherwise yeah. No full attacking.
aboyd
Explorer
If you're going to do a halfling for the +1, why not just get a haversack or even non-magical bandolier, stock up with alchemists fire flasks, take the Quick Draw feat, and get 2d6 damage as a base, with only ranged touch attacks needed to score a hit? Can be BAB driven with the right feats, so multiple shots.
Shin Okada
Explorer
Using splash weapon is good for making ranged sneak attack. But you can't quickdraw something from HHH (It is a move action to retrieve an items from HHH in 3.5e). So you must use non-magical bandoliers for that. HHH is still good for storing, say, 100 flasks, though.
aboyd
Explorer
Isn't the Quick Draw feat supposed to reduce the time to draw weapons? I don't believe that the Haversack is intended to mandate the move action cost, but rather to imply that it requires a move action just like other packs require a move action, but slightly better since it doesn't provoke AOO. If they simply imply that it's like other packs but a little better, then a feat designed to reduce draw time should work on it like it does on any other.
Of course, if the haversack has a mandatory minimum draw time, then no feat will reduce the time. However, that then makes the haversack worse than a non-magical pack, doesn't it?
Of course, if the haversack has a mandatory minimum draw time, then no feat will reduce the time. However, that then makes the haversack worse than a non-magical pack, doesn't it?
Shin Okada
Explorer
"Draw a Weapon" and "Retrieve a stored item" are different kind of actions. Quick draw feat let you do the former action as a free action. Retrieving an item from HHH is the latter (and as a special advantage it does not provoke AoO).
aboyd
Explorer
So let me see if I understand.
With a haversack, I use the Quick Draw feat to pull out alchemist fire flasks, which NORMALLY lets me pull 'em out at full BAB, but with the haversack limits me because while I can draw as a free action, I have to wait for the retrieval (which I would think would be implied by a draw, but whatever). End result, even if I have the Quick Draw, the haversack prevents me from drawing at full BAB.
However, with a normal backpack/pouch/other storage device, I use Quick Draw to draw at full BAB and it works? Because they don't have a "retrieval" time?
If normal storage does have a retrieval time, then Quick Draw is a failure of a feat, as it specifically says you can get full BAB for thrown weapons, yet anything apparently defeats it.
If normal storage does not have a retrieval time, then the haversack is a failure of a magic item, as its supposed advantage over normal packs is in fact a disadvantage.
Where in the rules does it specify that draw and retrieval are separate, anyway? I want to read that for myself. Is it like a stacking rule? How do they stack?
EDIT: Hmm. I see it. Page 141 of Players Handbook. The problem with this is that a flask is in a weird space of being a weapon you draw and being a stored item. Apparently it comes down to context -- if the storage device lends itself to Quick Draw, then Quick Draw applies. If not, then it's a rummaging-in-the-pack retrieval issue. I guess in such a case, the only good option for a halfling thrower is to buy the bandolier. At least there is SOME option that works.
With a haversack, I use the Quick Draw feat to pull out alchemist fire flasks, which NORMALLY lets me pull 'em out at full BAB, but with the haversack limits me because while I can draw as a free action, I have to wait for the retrieval (which I would think would be implied by a draw, but whatever). End result, even if I have the Quick Draw, the haversack prevents me from drawing at full BAB.
However, with a normal backpack/pouch/other storage device, I use Quick Draw to draw at full BAB and it works? Because they don't have a "retrieval" time?
If normal storage does have a retrieval time, then Quick Draw is a failure of a feat, as it specifically says you can get full BAB for thrown weapons, yet anything apparently defeats it.
If normal storage does not have a retrieval time, then the haversack is a failure of a magic item, as its supposed advantage over normal packs is in fact a disadvantage.
Where in the rules does it specify that draw and retrieval are separate, anyway? I want to read that for myself. Is it like a stacking rule? How do they stack?
EDIT: Hmm. I see it. Page 141 of Players Handbook. The problem with this is that a flask is in a weird space of being a weapon you draw and being a stored item. Apparently it comes down to context -- if the storage device lends itself to Quick Draw, then Quick Draw applies. If not, then it's a rummaging-in-the-pack retrieval issue. I guess in such a case, the only good option for a halfling thrower is to buy the bandolier. At least there is SOME option that works.
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Right because flasks are items - like those that contain "oils" or "potions". Just because an item can be used as a weapon doesn't have it qualify as a weapon.
azhrei_fje
First Post
Now here's a question: can you take the -4 penalty for using an improvised weapon, thereby treating the flask as a weapon, and then retrieve it for free from the HHH? (Yeah, a bit facetious but so what?)
(I think the answer should be "no", since the HHH dictates the amount of time required to retrieve something -- the magic requires some time to shuffle around inside the pack and pull out what you want.)
(I think the answer should be "no", since the HHH dictates the amount of time required to retrieve something -- the magic requires some time to shuffle around inside the pack and pull out what you want.)
