Ranged Sneak Attack

[milo]

I would say do the honorable thing and play a halfling rogue who uses a sling to maximize your attack bonus and get your sneak attack for the damage portion.

 

[Runestar]

I would say do the honorable thing and play a halfling rogue who uses a sling to maximize your attack bonus and get your sneak attack for the damage portion.

Aren't you limited to just 1 attack/round with the sling because it normally takes a move action to reload? Seems a bow is still the better route...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you have a nice DM that allows you to take Rapid Reload on a sling, it can work, otherwise yeah. No full attacking.

 

[aboyd]

If you're going to do a halfling for the +1, why not just get a haversack or even non-magical bandolier, stock up with alchemists fire flasks, take the Quick Draw feat, and get 2d6 damage as a base, with only ranged touch attacks needed to score a hit? Can be BAB driven with the right feats, so multiple shots.

 

[Shin Okada]

Using splash weapon is good for making ranged sneak attack. But you can't quickdraw something from HHH (It is a move action to retrieve an items from HHH in 3.5e). So you must use non-magical bandoliers for that. HHH is still good for storing, say, 100 flasks, though.

 

[aboyd]

Isn't the Quick Draw feat supposed to reduce the time to draw weapons? I don't believe that the Haversack is intended to mandate the move action cost, but rather to imply that it requires a move action just like other packs require a move action, but slightly better since it doesn't provoke AOO. If they simply imply that it's like other packs but a little better, then a feat designed to reduce draw time should work on it like it does on any other.

Of course, if the haversack has a mandatory minimum draw time, then no feat will reduce the time. However, that then makes the haversack worse than a non-magical pack, doesn't it?

 

[Shin Okada]

"Draw a Weapon" and "Retrieve a stored item" are different kind of actions. Quick draw feat let you do the former action as a free action. Retrieving an item from HHH is the latter (and as a special advantage it does not provoke AoO).

 

[aboyd]

So let me see if I understand.

With a haversack, I use the Quick Draw feat to pull out alchemist fire flasks, which NORMALLY lets me pull 'em out at full BAB, but with the haversack limits me because while I can draw as a free action, I have to wait for the retrieval (which I would think would be implied by a draw, but whatever). End result, even if I have the Quick Draw, the haversack prevents me from drawing at full BAB.

However, with a normal backpack/pouch/other storage device, I use Quick Draw to draw at full BAB and it works? Because they don't have a "retrieval" time?

If normal storage does have a retrieval time, then Quick Draw is a failure of a feat, as it specifically says you can get full BAB for thrown weapons, yet anything apparently defeats it.

If normal storage does not have a retrieval time, then the haversack is a failure of a magic item, as its supposed advantage over normal packs is in fact a disadvantage.

Where in the rules does it specify that draw and retrieval are separate, anyway? I want to read that for myself. Is it like a stacking rule? How do they stack?

EDIT: Hmm. I see it. Page 141 of Players Handbook. The problem with this is that a flask is in a weird space of being a weapon you draw and being a stored item. Apparently it comes down to context -- if the storage device lends itself to Quick Draw, then Quick Draw applies. If not, then it's a rummaging-in-the-pack retrieval issue. I guess in such a case, the only good option for a halfling thrower is to buy the bandolier. At least there is SOME option that works.

 

[irdeggman]

EDIT: Hmm. I see it. Page 141 of Players Handbook. The problem with this is that a flask is in a weird space of being a weapon you draw and being a stored item. Apparently it comes down to context -- if the storage device lends itself to Quick Draw, then Quick Draw applies. If not, then it's a rummaging-in-the-pack retrieval issue. I guess in such a case, the only good option for a halfling thrower is to buy the bandolier. At least there is SOME option that works.

Right because flasks are items - like those that contain "oils" or "potions". Just because an item can be used as a weapon doesn't have it qualify as a weapon.

 

[azhrei_fje]

Now here's a question: can you take the -4 penalty for using an improvised weapon, thereby treating the flask as a weapon, and then retrieve it for free from the HHH? (Yeah, a bit facetious but so what?)

(I think the answer should be "no", since the HHH dictates the amount of time required to retrieve something -- the magic requires some time to shuffle around inside the pack and pull out what you want.)