To all D&D fans - what are the top 3 specific changes 4e needs in your opinion
- Thread starter Najo
- Start date
1. Speed up combat, if its this long and dragged out at low levels I'm not looking forward to paragon or epic tier encounters.
2. Daily abilities, make them go away they are to jarring to immersion for melee characters.
3. Stop the power creep, I can already see hints of it starting in the AV and FRPG. You sacrificed the flavor of the game on the altar of balance, don't make the same mistake of earlier editions and trash that very balance we paid so dearly for.
3a. Bring back real multiclassing or at least better multiclassing/true multiclassing.
Sorry I couldn't quite get the list down to 3...
2. Daily abilities, make them go away they are to jarring to immersion for melee characters.
3. Stop the power creep, I can already see hints of it starting in the AV and FRPG. You sacrificed the flavor of the game on the altar of balance, don't make the same mistake of earlier editions and trash that very balance we paid so dearly for.
3a. Bring back real multiclassing or at least better multiclassing/true multiclassing.
Sorry I couldn't quite get the list down to 3...
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Psion
Adventurer
- Return to more realistic represenations on the battlemat. 1-2-1-2, Spherical and Conical areas of effect, etc.
- Restoration of quick utility spells, vancian magic, and classical spell schools.
- More attention to non-combat challenges: non-adventuring skills (craft/profession/perform), spells, and classes that trade combat utlity for non-combat ability.
RangerWickett
Legend
1. Polish the flavor, specifically some of the artwork and flavor text throughout the rulebooks. Given how much white space there is in the PHB with all those powers and magic items, I'd love it if they could spend a few hours to write up more narratively compelling material, adding little flourishes to the non-mechanical aspects of the game.
I have my personal preferences with regard to art, and while I lament the rarity of some of my favorite 3e artists (Lockwood in particular), I can understand trying different things out. But WotC has a huge stable of Magic: the Gathering artists. I wish they'd use more of them for D&D. (And I also wish they'd replace all those flat, monochromatic bars for powers and items with something that has at least a little texture, a la the frame artwork on Magic cards.)
I suppose on the same note, hit points are not linked flavor-wise to actual injuries at all anymore. I had my players laugh when they realized one PC been bitten five times by a cobra, but by grunting and flexing his muscles for a bit, he managed to squeeze the poison out of his system. These aren't big issues when it comes to playing the "game" of D&D, but they are huge when it comes to the "story" of D&D.
2. Broaden multiclass options. It's nifty as it is now, but I wish the rules gave more leeway as to which specific powers or knacks you get access to. Likewise, paragon paths often are useless for multiclassers; if you take the Warlock multiclass feat, you could take a warlock paragon path, but since all those key off your pact boon, and the feat doesn't let you get that boon, you're out of luck. Similarly, some awkwardness is frustrating: like a warlock/wizard having to carry a rod and a wand at once; or all rogue powers requiring a limited set of weapons (what if you just took a penalty if you used an odd weapon?).
Basically, I prefer options, not restrictions, and multiclassing right now is too restrictive.
3. Battles do tend to slog a bit. Maybe that's just because the players aren't using canny enough tactics, teaming up and such. Maybe they haven't min-maxed enough. Maybe things go better at higher levels when you have more encounter powers. I'd need to play more to get a clear sense of what needs improvement, but it looks like a lot of people have similar problems.
I don't mind the lack of powers for out of combat scenarios, though I wouldn't mind if they explicitly included some options to let you cast a ritual earlier and store it for quick casting later. But in 3e, I never needed 'utility powers' to get the players thinking and roleplaying.
Never let it be said, though, that a roleplaying system should ignore character personality. Right now the PHB has hundreds of pages for how to make your character an efficient killer of things that need killing. I think it could certainly benefit from a chapter on designing a personality.
New World of Darkness does it in two fascinatingly simple brush strokes. Your character has a virtue, and a vice. When you indulge in the vice, you get a point of willpower (sort of like a mini action point). When you sacrifice expediency for the sake of upholding your virtue, you get a lot of points of willpower. You can then use the willpower in or out of combat.
This tiny mechanic really helps promote developing a character with motives, and maybe even a little bit of internal conflict. It's completely easy to ignore if all you want is to roll dice and make monster minis vanish from a grid, but if you want to roleplay, it helps.
I have my personal preferences with regard to art, and while I lament the rarity of some of my favorite 3e artists (Lockwood in particular), I can understand trying different things out. But WotC has a huge stable of Magic: the Gathering artists. I wish they'd use more of them for D&D. (And I also wish they'd replace all those flat, monochromatic bars for powers and items with something that has at least a little texture, a la the frame artwork on Magic cards.)
I suppose on the same note, hit points are not linked flavor-wise to actual injuries at all anymore. I had my players laugh when they realized one PC been bitten five times by a cobra, but by grunting and flexing his muscles for a bit, he managed to squeeze the poison out of his system. These aren't big issues when it comes to playing the "game" of D&D, but they are huge when it comes to the "story" of D&D.
2. Broaden multiclass options. It's nifty as it is now, but I wish the rules gave more leeway as to which specific powers or knacks you get access to. Likewise, paragon paths often are useless for multiclassers; if you take the Warlock multiclass feat, you could take a warlock paragon path, but since all those key off your pact boon, and the feat doesn't let you get that boon, you're out of luck. Similarly, some awkwardness is frustrating: like a warlock/wizard having to carry a rod and a wand at once; or all rogue powers requiring a limited set of weapons (what if you just took a penalty if you used an odd weapon?).
Basically, I prefer options, not restrictions, and multiclassing right now is too restrictive.
3. Battles do tend to slog a bit. Maybe that's just because the players aren't using canny enough tactics, teaming up and such. Maybe they haven't min-maxed enough. Maybe things go better at higher levels when you have more encounter powers. I'd need to play more to get a clear sense of what needs improvement, but it looks like a lot of people have similar problems.
I don't mind the lack of powers for out of combat scenarios, though I wouldn't mind if they explicitly included some options to let you cast a ritual earlier and store it for quick casting later. But in 3e, I never needed 'utility powers' to get the players thinking and roleplaying.
Never let it be said, though, that a roleplaying system should ignore character personality. Right now the PHB has hundreds of pages for how to make your character an efficient killer of things that need killing. I think it could certainly benefit from a chapter on designing a personality.
New World of Darkness does it in two fascinatingly simple brush strokes. Your character has a virtue, and a vice. When you indulge in the vice, you get a point of willpower (sort of like a mini action point). When you sacrifice expediency for the sake of upholding your virtue, you get a lot of points of willpower. You can then use the willpower in or out of combat.
This tiny mechanic really helps promote developing a character with motives, and maybe even a little bit of internal conflict. It's completely easy to ignore if all you want is to roll dice and make monster minis vanish from a grid, but if you want to roleplay, it helps.
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crash_beedo
First Post
I would only add to this - fewer hit points for enemies, but increasing the damage so the level of threat remains the same. I'm not 100% sold that this is necessary (our fights are in the 30-45 min range) but it might be a nice houserule.
The other thing would be MORE.... more classes, more monsters. But those things are scheduled, and I'd rather they be dribbled out over time and keep the publisher in business producing a mix of "core reference" and splat and not 100% splat. But I miss you, remaining Giants (Frost, Stone...)
Nebulous
Legend
Oh, this won't be a problem, these things WILL come. The problem is that they will come out of the box with too many hitpoints and not enough flavor. I don't see the MM2 being any better than MM1. I can hope, but my expectations are low.
And i have to concur almost completely with RangerWicket's last post. I particularly like the WoD personality trait thing. The game is sorely in need of something like that.
Fabio Andrea Rossi
First Post
I like 4E a lot, yet:
This
Eliminate tactical movement tracking at least to the point of not having to go to the battlemaps for every minor encounter: an ideal system would have a quick way to switch grids on/off for when a DM needs to make up a quick battle, or a particular encounter with a very large or very particular battlefield ill suited to combat grids, this would make battles not so legoland style;
This
Much more fluff for monsters. Many of my homebrew adventures sprang from the flavour text of past MM, much more evocative than today to the fertile mind;
And this
Magic has GOT to be tweaked to make it feel more like magic of earlier editions
Magic has to feel, well, magical, to the point of being different from the other non magical things.
For monsters and NPCs, the actual system is not a bad thing at all: I managed to obtain the result above by giving them what old edition style spells they needed. For instance, my arachnomancer escaped the party by casting during the battle its rock to web and spider climb illegal, tricky, invented and beautiful spells, it was really like old times. No player complained, as they no longer know what monsters really do
, I love this side of the new monsters. If done cautiously and without abuse, they'll never know if you or the Great Designers made those spell powers. For PCs, much more difficult to accomplish and severely missed.
I also think monsters HPs and defenses are too high, but this is simply fixed by resorting to clever suggestions in this same forum. PCs HPs are too many too, but a DM has his higher-level, HP-weakened monster friends eager to take care of this
This
Eliminate tactical movement tracking at least to the point of not having to go to the battlemaps for every minor encounter: an ideal system would have a quick way to switch grids on/off for when a DM needs to make up a quick battle, or a particular encounter with a very large or very particular battlefield ill suited to combat grids, this would make battles not so legoland style;
This
Much more fluff for monsters. Many of my homebrew adventures sprang from the flavour text of past MM, much more evocative than today to the fertile mind;
And this
Magic has GOT to be tweaked to make it feel more like magic of earlier editions
Magic has to feel, well, magical, to the point of being different from the other non magical things.
For monsters and NPCs, the actual system is not a bad thing at all: I managed to obtain the result above by giving them what old edition style spells they needed. For instance, my arachnomancer escaped the party by casting during the battle its rock to web and spider climb illegal, tricky, invented and beautiful spells, it was really like old times. No player complained, as they no longer know what monsters really do
, I love this side of the new monsters. If done cautiously and without abuse, they'll never know if you or the Great Designers made those spell powers. For PCs, much more difficult to accomplish and severely missed.I also think monsters HPs and defenses are too high, but this is simply fixed by resorting to clever suggestions in this same forum. PCs HPs are too many too, but a DM has his higher-level, HP-weakened monster friends eager to take care of this
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Wednesday Boy
The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
1) More fluff for monsters and their abilities, PC powers, and locations and organizations (from FRCG). I can understand if the designers want to leave the details of these open to the players' interpretations but I find it easier to put a different spin on them if I have a clue what was intended.
3) Include more non-combat powers.
3) Include more non-combat powers.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
1. More fluff for monsters and abilities
2. Fix the alignments, the 1e to 3e alignments were perfect, 4e is flawed.
3. Better multiclassing, that feels more like multiclassing.
2. Fix the alignments, the 1e to 3e alignments were perfect, 4e is flawed.
3. Better multiclassing, that feels more like multiclassing.
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