How to kill a blue dragon?

[Praesul]

This isn't a solution for the full 20 square height and it comes thanks to the Adventurer's Vault, but once you get the dragon on the ground or within 10 squares of the ground, someone should start using tanglefoot bags on it. An immobilized creature cannot fly, so it will fall the remaining distance to the ground or it will keep that guy on the ground so your melee folks can get in and get to work.

Just one more possible variable for the larger equation and another reason I would hesitate to say that it's impossible to kill a blue dragon in the heroic tier.

Edit: Actually... I may be wrong on this. You may need something that will put the dragon into a prone state not just immobilized. Re-reading the rules for immobilized I have realized that it doesn't technically have an effect on flying creatures, but I would impose it as a DM. So it would be more of a house-rule or judgment call than by-the-book ruling.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

I didn't say relative plane. I meant that it would be a 3x3 Burst 2 grid like normal, just only on the ground level so that the dragon couldn't abuse it to get completely out of range of everything but a Crossbow, Longbow or Greatbow at long range. (22 squares up would exceed even Magic Missile range)

 

[MrMyth]

I didn't say relative plane. I meant that it would be a 3x3 Burst 3 grid like normal, just only on the ground level so that the dragon couldn't abuse it to get completely out of range of everything but a Crossbow, Longbow or Greatbow at long range. (22 squares up would exceed even Magic Missile range)

Oh, if you are concerned about it from a balance issue I have absolutely no problems with wanting to make a ruling to avoid it being used like this. I just don't think there is any grounding the rules themselves to do so, and your initial posts seemed to be stating that was where your issues were.

As long as this is being put forward entirely as a House Rule, I can certainly understand the desire for it. (As I mentioned, it changes the exercise from one where an average party has a good change of success to one where they have a low chance of success.)

 

[Keenath]

"Uh.. parley?"

In that sort of situation, you're simply not going to win. You're fighting on the dragon's terms, in his most favorable environment.

That's the time to pull a Sir Robin and Run away! Run away! or else try to surrender. You could try to use ranged basic attacks, though; the fairly low damage of Lightning Burst might make that a viable option (at least for the fighter).

 

[mellack]

This isn't a solution for the full 20 square height and it comes thanks to the Adventurer's Vault, but once you get the dragon on the ground or within 10 squares of the ground, someone should start using tanglefoot bags on it. An immobilized creature cannot fly, so it will fall the remaining distance to the ground or it will keep that guy on the ground so your melee folks can get in and get to work.

Where does it say that an immobilized dragon will fall to the ground? Is this a power of the Tanglefoot bag specifically?

 

[Praesul]

Where does it say that an immobilized dragon will fall to the ground? Is this a power of the Tanglefoot bag specifically?

Read my full post, I already addressed my mistake. I was confusing the effect of the "Immobilized" condition with the "Prone" condition in reference to the impact on flying creatures. So no, it's not a specific effect of the tanglefoot bag it was my misremembering the rules.

It does, however, shed light on a valid tactic. Trying to knock the dragon prone at range will bring him slowly down towards the ground. Combine that with the tanglefoot bag, which prevents him from flying up but does not prevent forced movement, and you'll get the dragon within range of melee fighters. Now we just need to find something that knocks a foe prone from 20 squares.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Where does it say that an immobilized dragon will fall to the ground? Is this a power of the Tanglefoot bag specifically?

I don't have the MM in front of me, so I can't read up on the Blue Dragon specifically... However, if a creature doesn't have the hover power, then it needs to be able to move (and move a certain distance each round) in order to stay aloft. So if a Blue Dragon doesn't have hover, then anything that immobilizes (and possibly even slows) will bring him down.

 

[Orcus Porkus]

The dragon does have the hover power.
Check this out (from Dragon):

Wizard Attack 1

Phantom Chasm

You create the image of a bottomless chasm that opens beneath your foes, convincing them that they are plummeting to their deaths.
Daily

Arcane, Illusion, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 20 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: 2d6 + Intelligence modifier psychic damage, and the target is prone and immobilized until the end of its next turn.
Miss: The target is immobilized until the end of your next turn.

Is there a rule that specifically deals with flying creatures that are immobilized? In my opinion they fall like a rock unless they are magically flying. And a dragon flies with his wings.

 

[Gort]

You could run for cover somewhere. Then he'd have to come to you to fight.

 

[-Avalon-]

After several hours of research, and debating over this issue, I have arrived at a sure-fire solution that requires a tiny bit of alchemy, some thievery and subterfuge, and a stout fighter type for backup in case things get hairy...

Have your alchemist mix drinks for your dm, until he passes out... find his monster manual and hide it! If he uses printed sheets for his monsters, then find them and hide them as well... replace these with versions designed and forged by the players.

If the DM gets mean, you have the fighter buddy standing back up

Otherwise, I do think either sleep or that chasm spell will be your best solution. I applaud all of you for coming up with "creative" run and hide type solutions... but somehow the fact that the DM threw a 6th lvl dragon against the 4th lvl party in a wide open area... kinda makes me believe he will not allow most of those, I would rather not chance those as my answer, and stick more straight to the rules...

Good luck in any case, let us know how it goes.