Racial Level Adjustments...think it works?
- Thread starter Oryan77
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billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
That depends far too much, I think, on the particular combination of class and racial benefits. A half-ogre, for example, is ECL +2 but as long as he's playing a fighter-type, you'll never know the difference. His strength and con modifiers make up for the difference pretty well throughout his career.
But if he were a sorcerer, for example, then you'd notice the difference at higher levels even if he'd be quite a bruiser at low levels.
Starbuck_II
Explorer
Races alone not templates?
Yeah, in general LA's are far too high. Templates usually do opposite too low, except 1/2 Dragon is too high, but 1/2 Ogre template is LA +1 so maybe too low as it changes size.
Some Races like Hobgoblin seem too much penalty for little benefit (which why you see too few Hobs played).
Others like Dwarf are easily LA +1, but they are rated LA +0 because designers want you to play them.
Jeff Wilder
First Post
Half-ogre in the latest (controlling) source is LA +2. Personally, as the player of a half-ogre, I think they're somewhere between +1 and +2, and as a DM I'd rather err on the side of caution.
There's no way dwarves are LA +1, even though they are on the strong side. Warforged, on the other hand, are definitely strong enough to be LA +1.
In my experience, LA works pretty well (expecially when using the buy-off rules from UA), but monster levels are far too expensive. (In other words, there's no way that a gnoll's 2 HD are worth 2 levels.)
That said, I think that the best way to handle both LA, by far, is for the DM to work with the player to work up a progression, level by level. Dragon magazine did some LA templates like this, and they worked well.
Starbuck_II
Explorer
No 1/2 Ogre race isn't a template, but a race. The 1/2 Template is better.
1/2 Ogre template is from Dragon Magazine, but 12/ Ogre race is from Races of Destiny I think.
Neither canceled each other.
Ahnehnois
First Post
I like the ECL=HD+LA system. LAs for individual creatures are always debatable-often they're high, and of course they do assume an optimized character (a half-ogre mage is pretty lousy). But given the conceit of the game that creature A and creature B must be 'balanced' despite the fact that one is more powerful than the other, this is the only thing to do.
Racial hit dice are generally weak, and the LA of a creature with 2+ HD should take this into account.
I think the best ECL races are the ones that have "gifts that keep on giving" such as a bonus to Int or Con or SR-something that scales with level. Otherwise the benefits do tend to devalue at high levels. The LA buyoff rules are also worthy of note as a corrective measure for this.
Racial hit dice are generally weak, and the LA of a creature with 2+ HD should take this into account.
I think the best ECL races are the ones that have "gifts that keep on giving" such as a bonus to Int or Con or SR-something that scales with level. Otherwise the benefits do tend to devalue at high levels. The LA buyoff rules are also worthy of note as a corrective measure for this.
Oryan77
Adventurer
I'm mainly interested in normal player races from other sourcebooks, but I'm all ears about monster races also.
None of my players ever pick a race with a level adjustment. For me, playing the race is more important to me than optimization. But nobody ever wants to be a Tiefling, or a Genasi due to the LA. If I'm thinking of it in power level terms, I don't blame them. It just doesn't seem like those racial abilities make up for things like possible higher level spells if going the spellcaster route.
I just made a 10th lvl Drow Wizard/War Weaver. Losing out on 3 levels of spellcasting and being considered a Caster Level 7 hurts. At mid levels, those Drow abilities don't seem worth the perks you'd get from a class.
None of my players ever pick a race with a level adjustment. For me, playing the race is more important to me than optimization. But nobody ever wants to be a Tiefling, or a Genasi due to the LA. If I'm thinking of it in power level terms, I don't blame them. It just doesn't seem like those racial abilities make up for things like possible higher level spells if going the spellcaster route.
I just made a 10th lvl Drow Wizard/War Weaver. Losing out on 3 levels of spellcasting and being considered a Caster Level 7 hurts. At mid levels, those Drow abilities don't seem worth the perks you'd get from a class.
Where exactly are these rules? In UA? What page?
They are in UA (I don't recall the page) but they are also part of the SRD here...
Reducing Level Adjustments :: d20srd.org
Starbuck_II
Explorer
Merrulurks are worth the ECL (3 HD, 2 LA). But they get +3d6 sneak attack racially so you only lose skill points from rogue. They get a 1/day stinking cloud breath weapon, etc.
They are in Sandstorm.
They represent a good balanced HD + LA creature.
Drow look better than they are. If Male low bonuses, but female get better so LA +1 if Male, but +2 if Female would be more appropriate. But I guess that was considered sexist (but granting female higher ability scores wasn't?)
Pixies and Gloura are feys that are worth the high ECL. Gloura get racial spellcasting and Pixies get invisibility at will.
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