Who ruined D&D's Rep?

[Ambrus]

Kill her and take her stuff.

Oh sure. And what am I supposed to do with a broody pubescent vampire and an ugly one horned mule? No thanks.

 

[jaerdaph]

let he who did not teach themselves quenya at the age of 13 cast the first stone.

rotflmao! :d

 

[Jack7]

And you call yourself a geek? For shame!

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Quenya is one of Tolkien's elvish languages.

Hantale! Nan, Quetin ú quenyo.

 

[unan oranis]

The most interested and passionate people became the hobbies leaders; the games structure putting a lot of how the game is experienced/perceived in the hands of these leaders (as dm's)


Their motivations were usually comprised of one or more of the following:

1. intelligent, relatively heavy reader, analytical mind. (undaunted by stacks of "dry" rule books)

2. focused, creative, patient. (no problem sitting around for 6-8 hours telling stories)

3. Desire to be masterful at a social game but hindered from most other popular ones due to physical runtiness/poor health. (unhappy with place in pecking order)

4. Desire to have social contact but hindered from enjoying traditional hang-outs due to being some flavor of mental. (unwelcome, lacking a bridge to communicate honestly)

5. Fascinated with the magic of the game.


Anyone could take from this list, but not everyone.

Often that person would fall into the nerd category at first glance.

 

[Jack7]

Their motivations were usually comprised of one or more of the following:

1. intelligent, relatively heavy reader, analytical mind. (undaunted by stacks of "dry" rule books)

2. focused, creative, patient. (no problem sitting around for 6-8 hours telling stories)

3. Desire to be masterful at a social game but hindered from most other popular ones due to physical runtiness/poor health. (unhappy with place in pecking order)

4. Desire to have social contact but hindered from enjoying traditional hang-outs due to being some flavor of mental. (unwelcome, lacking a bridge to communicate honestly)

5. Fascinated with the magic of the game.


Anyone could take from this list, but not everyone.

Often that person would fall into the nerd category at first glance.

I don't know UO. I'm gonna wax serious a moment.

I wasn't weak, though I was a runt (undersized for a long time), and didn't grow my last two inches until a sophomore in college. However I did play plenty of sports, football, soccer, ran track and cross country, baseball, etc. I played basketball too but being a runt was never good at much below the net, I was an outside shooter.

Spent a lot of time in the woods too, so I was an outdoorsman, or outdoors-boy, as a kid.

I also didn't play D&D (and that was about the only rpg available at the time) because it was substitute for other games, or physical activity. I always liked a lot of physical activity and even risk and danger. I was and still am attracted to that, but I've been injured so often now that I'm pretty selective now about how and if I get busted up.

I don't know about being some flavor of mental. Assuming I'm reading ya right. I was pretty popular in most circles and moved easily between jocks and nerds and just regular Joes. I didn't particularly favor any group and none seemed to either favor, or disown, me. I think I got along pretty well with most any and all kinds of folks because of my sense of humor and because I was a bit of a wild-ass.

Playing D&D did interest me, then again so did War-games and Risk and Chess and Ogre and Battleship and setting off fireworks in the mall parking lot and seeing if I could outrun the mall cops, and getting into sword fights with my buddies. (I guess that could be called my flavor of mental).

I think to me it was just a very interesting activity, one among many, but one which was so unseal at the time that it was fascinating not only for the potential benefits, but for the novelty. It was sort of like brain-danger and adventure, and vadding of the imagination to me.

It didn't make me feel like an outcast in any way, but it was a sort of selective hobby in the fact that not everyone dug it, or was impressed by it.

I do/did/have always read a lot and consider myself generally intelligent, but I'm not one a those modern intellectual types who feel that intelligence is the most important attribute any person can ever possess (I've run into my share of those kinds of fellas though, and never much cared for that attitude). Intelligence is an advantage in many situations but I think of other attributes as both more honorable and noble, and as more important. Like virtue, courage, or wisdom, for example.

I also was fascinated, if that is the term, by magic, but in an abstract way, for what it implied about possible scientific and psychological capabilities. I never much got the idea of magic as an imaginary power source, but I did get the concept of magic as a source of empowering the imagination.

I did and others did consider myself a nerd in some ways, an anti-nerd in others, however back then in my neck of the woods it was more common to call such a fella a brainiac, which really didn't imply anything about social status. It seems to me the popular association between nerdines and clumsiness and anti-athleticism and social dufus came much later. A lot of the kids I grew up with were expected to be both good athletes and good students and smart and sociable. Most of the line of my high school football team were also in AP lit and math and physics classes, for example. And most were well-liked. There really wasn't a dividing line between good physical capabilities, and good mental capabilities, and I'm hopeful whatever later artificial lines that have developed in popular culture, regardless of how true, untrue, or stereotypical, are rapidly disappearing. I much prefer Renaissance men and women to the idea of tightly regulated and overly-classified Nerd, Geek, Jock, Popular type sub-categories. Most folks can and should do far more than walk and chew gum at the same time.

I know by the way you were just generalizing and I'm not criticizing your points in your post. Sometimes it's almost essential to generalize to make a basic point. I guess I'm just saying it might not always be evident that motivations express themselves in the same way with every individual, or maybe even more generally speaking. That is to say that although general motivations can seem similar, perhaps they always express uniquely or individually. Or, put another way, appearances are not always appropriate indicators of actuality.

And what am I supposed to do with a broody pubescent vampire and an ugly one horned mule?

I got in a fix like that one time and my roommate and I had to move to another dorm. Ah, the vicissitudes of youth.

 

[Dire Bare]

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Hantale! Nan, Quetin ú quenyo.

Oh, nevermind!

 

[unan oranis]

I never much got the idea of magic as an imaginary power source, but I did get the concept of magic as a source of empowering the imagination.

Pardon me; I did not mean the magic rules - I meant a person falling in love with the game itself, finding the game to be mysterious, compelling.

I know by the way you were just generalizing and I'm not criticizing your points in your post. Sometimes it's almost essential to generalize to make a basic point. I guess I'm just saying it might not always be evident that motivations express themselves in the same way with every individual, or maybe even more generally speaking. That is to say that although general motivations can seem similar, perhaps they always express uniquely or individually. Or, put another way, appearances are not always appropriate indicators of actuality.

Clearly dnd players are one of the most diverse crowds associated with any hobby; thus the question of why it's "rep" is poor.

But "rep" is a generalization, and is based on generalizations - I would never judge a players reason for playing without factoring in their specific uniqueness.

However, in observation of many players (in north america at least) certain trends in motivation become pretty obvious, especially at the high-school level.

Not bad or wrong or detrimental to anyones character, but plainly some people are getting things out of the game that other people get elsewhere.

This capability is in fact one of many amazing attributes of rpg's in general.

Maybe I'm wrong as to what makes a nerd, or why a nerd would be attracted to this activity, but the consensus and observable facts are that "nerdy" people are the ones who mostly expose non-players to the existence of the game, and thus create the profile for all of us.

Perhaps dnd itself is a gateway nerd-ism and not the other way around?

edit: if it isn't obvious already, I identify myself as a raging nerd - peace my nerdly brothers

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Everybody just knock it off!

KNOCK IT OFF!!!!

You're ruining D&D's rep!

The Auld Grump
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4hPwMLKhNw]obligatory Dead Alewives link.[/ame]
You can blame them.

 

[catsclaw227]

I always liked a lot of physical activity and even risk and danger. I was and still am attracted to that, but I've been injured so often now that I'm pretty selective now about how and if I get busted up.

I don't know about being some flavor of mental. Assuming I'm reading ya right. I was pretty popular in most circles and moved easily between jocks and nerds and just regular Joes. I didn't particularly favor any group and none seemed to either favor, or disown, me. I think I got along pretty well with most any and all kinds of folks because of my sense of humor and because I was a bit of a wild-ass.

Wow, you described me to a T. I was a friend of nerds and cool people all through jr high and high school. Heck, the girl who won "prettiest girl" in high school was my good friend. She knew I played D&D, but also knew that I was a good hockey goaltender (even though I was only 5'3"), a guitarist in a band (we did 70's psychedelic mixed with early Red Hot Chili Peppers), and I played a bit of football, even though I was short (not undersized, I was always a stocky and strong kid).

My GF was popular, but I played D&D at lunchtime because I could. I ran the A1-4 series back in 1980 for my buddies and though I was a RBDM, I was fair and we all kicked ass.

I also beat up a known bully once in the middle of the quad because I stood there, got wacked multiple times, fell and rose several times and was clearly a loser, but in the end, I got in a good shot to the sternum and then the nose and balls and he dropped in the last seconds. It was like a bad 80's high-school movie montage, but I won. YAY for geeks!!!

But I was know for being crazy, smart (all AP classes) and a hippie stoner freak. The last being my fault. I loved the 70s progressive music to much to care.

It didn't make me feel like an outcast in any way, but it was a sort of selective hobby in the fact that not everyone dug it, or was impressed by it.

I did and others did consider myself a nerd in some ways, an anti-nerd in others...

Yep. Me neither, but it was a bit of a stigma to overcome.

Note, I lived in Southern California, the heart of coolness at the time.

 

[Umbran]

I don't even really know what that means but my wife and daughters go on about that crap incessantly.

You might want to look into it - you may not be terribly happy with the sort of relationships that your daughters are reading and being crazy about.