Who ruined D&D's Rep?

[MoxieFu]

You might want to look into it - you may not be terribly happy with the sort of relationships that your daughters are reading and being crazy about.

Umbran do you have a link? My Google-Fu failed. Is it a simple Werewolf v. Vampire thing?

If it's just about a work of fiction having fictional creatures I don't get it. If it's about actual people who think they ARE werewolves or vampires... well, that's differnt.

Is it because it's teeny-girl candy for the brain?

 

[The Little Raven]

Google "twilight abusive relationship" and you'll get an idea of what Umbran is talking about.

 

[Jack7]

You might want to look into it - you may not be terribly happy with the sort of relationships that your daughters are reading and being crazy about.

As long as I'm cleaning my handgun whenever boys visit, I get to pick my daughter's husbands, and they don't marry til thirty (when I think most people grow up nowadays) I suspect most everything will be okay.

But more seriously, I know people who think Harry Potter is Satan's breastmilk (I think for the most part it's a Christian allegory) , and that D&D was invented as a gateway to Witchcraft and Nerd-dom. (I am still being partly facetious).

But more seriously still, I appreciate the warning and I never turn down advice about investigating a thing for myself. So I'm gonna.

It may turn out being something that I would have understood the basic idiocy of as a teenager, or maybe even generally sympathized with (rebel against the Man), but nowadays being an old man and a father myself, won't necessarily approve of. Then again there's a lot of things I don't approve of I can't necessarily eradicate, nor would I necessarily eradicate. (Though I would eradicate some things if I could.)

The thing to me about being an old man and a father is you gotta give your kids enough room to be teenage idiots on their own (remembering that you were one too), and so not cause them to rebel too much against your stifling tyranny, and still lay down enough guidelines that they won't want to rebel in serious and detrimental ways, because they have decided that it's fine to be dumb in one's imagination, but it's better to be upright in one's character and behavior. That is I'm okay f they fantasize about being stupid and reckless every now and then, as long as they conduct themselves wisely and honorably. I'm also not against ideas about bad conduct being presented forthrightly, cause it serves as a moral warning, as long as corrupt behavior is not presented as romantic and honorable behavior, or as long as corrupt behavior does not remain static and unchanging. As a Christian I'm happy to see bad and reckless behavior transform over time into responsible and far better behavior.

But that's just me. Then again I have the whole difficulty of having been a wild-ass boy (though not really an intentionally bad one, but certainly wild enough at times) and still trying to raise daughters who think that now I'm some kinda Victorian who doesn't want them to have any fun or try anything dangerous or exciting. (Truth is I don't want them to when it comes to sex and drugs. I don't even like most of their music.)

It's always a balancing act I guess. But luckily they're good kids, and I got a pretty good wife to help me out and I don't think she'd let em get too far outta hand. I do miss them being about 5 or 6 though. It was a whole lot easier back then.

But I'm gonna try and read one of those books and watch one of those movies (God help me get through it), just to see what all the hub-bub is. The things we do for our kids. Still, my parents had to endure me (and still do), so I guess everybody has their cross to bear.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Jack7, hopefully you have a lot less to be worried about since your wife is apparently involved in it (re: your first post). If you trust her implicitly, then you'll be okay.

 

[Jack7]

Jack7, hopefully you have a lot less to be worried about since your wife is apparently involved in it (re: your first post). If you trust her implicitly, then you'll be okay.

In2000, that does bring up an interesting point though, returning to the original subject matter of the thread.

Why is a movie about an imaginary Vampire-boy considered cool and romantic, and a Nerd, Geek, or other fella playing a hero out to destroy a vampire or other types of monsters considered "uncool" (if I may coin a phrase)?

What makes one a pop sensation, the other not so much?

For that matter what exactly is it that makes D&D or other role play games cool, and/or uncool (not to players, but to the general public)?


By the way, if anyone has something they wanna say about Twilight, then go here: The Knight and the Damsel. I'd be interested in your opinions.

 

[Mallus]

Hantale! Nan, Quetin ú quenyo.

See, I knew you knew what I meant .

Does making up your own Dragon Language at 15 count?

Absolutely! Also, nice!

 

[Ambrus]

Why is a movie about an imaginary Vampire-boy considered cool and romantic, and a Nerd, Geek, or other fella playing a hero out to destroy a vampire or other types of monsters considered "uncool" (if I may coin a phrase)?

What makes one a pop sensation, the other not so much?

The former is very pretty, brooding, silently tormented, mysterious and a little bit menacing with windswept features and a vacant stare that can easily be mistaken for profoundly insightful. From what I can tell, to teenage girls, this makes him the equivalent of a porn/rock star.

The latter is an awkward, likely less than impressive looking young guy with a handful of weird shaped dice and delusions of grandeur. From what I can tell, to teenage girls, this makes him the equivalent of Eddie Munster.

 

[Bullgrit]

I wonder how much of the uncool stigma we as grown men placed on ourselves.

When 25-30 year old women look back on what they did as 13-14 year old girls, it's all cute, fun, maybe even silly (in a cute and fun way). On average, in general, an adult woman would think it adorable to sit down and play with some 13-14 year old girls for an hour.

When 25-30 year old men look back on what they did as 13-14 year old boys, it's all dumb, dorky, useless (in a dumb and dorky way). On average, in general, an adult man would think it horrible to sit down and play with some 13-14 year old boys for an hour.

Was playing D&D in the late 70s to early 80s actually considered uncool at the time? The only negative I remember experiencing at the time I was playing the game as a teenager (in the 80s) was the "Satanic" stigma. I think the first instances I experienced of "D&D is uncool" came about in the 90s. The 90s when the teens of the 80s were graduating college and joining the "real world."

Think of this:
A 30 year old person is sitting on a bench reading The Chronicles of Narnia.

What would an average 30 year old man think of that reader? What would an average 30 year old woman think of that reader? Would the thoughts be different if the reader were a man or a woman?

I think the man would be more likely to consider the reader a nerd or dork. Not because there's anything inherently nerdy or dorky about that book, but because the guy would be like, "Yeah, that was a good book when I was twelve. Ha ha."

The woman would probably say something like, "Oh I loved that book."

Again, in the general populace, things boys do at a young age is to be demeaned. Things girls do at a young age is to be revered.

And since most D&D gamers have been male through the years, and most move on to other things (they say "out grow it"), the D&D games they did as boys is said to be uncool.

So, in essence, men ended up calling the game uncool when they looked back on it. Men in the 90s started the "D&D of the 80s was uncool" movement. It was a retroactive curse.

Bullgrit

 

[Nagol]

Was playing D&D in the late 70s to early 80s actually considered uncool at the time? The only negative I remember experiencing at the time I was playing the game as a teenager (in the 80s) was the "Satanic" stigma. I think the first instances I experienced of "D&D is uncool" came about in the 90s. The 90s when the teens of the 80s were graduating college and joining the "real world."

Yes, it was uncool at the time.

D&D is the illegitimate offsrping of wargaming (uncool brainy pointless activity) and drama (uncool emoting embarrassing activity). It never had a chance.

 

[Umbran]

So, in essence, men ended up calling the game uncool when they looked back on it. Men in the 90s started the "D&D of the 80s was uncool" movement. It was a retroactive curse.

My memory has it that the activity was already uncool in the 80s.