Who ruined D&D's Rep?

[jaerdaph]

I played football and baseball and did art for the drama club and weirded out more serious jocks... as I was definitely a member of the smart nerdy types on top of it. Archetypes are way too limiting but I was definitely too shy for dating till college... Dancing Dating and D&D all better during college years

I played baseball, sang in chorus and was in the drama club in high school too, and a member of the National Honor Society. I was too small for football though - I think I may have weighed 100 pounds soaking wet the day I graduated from high school. I always got along with everyone (and had a charming, almost magical way of getting others to get along and lay off of one another, at least while I was around) and had friends who were jocks, preps, nerds and stoners.

I was even one of the founding members of the game club - you haven't really played D&D until you've had a nun as a DM. We were definitely cooler in game club than the guys in the chess and A/V clubs too.

Yeah - D&D and dating were definitely better in college!

 

[ggroy]

My memory has it that the activity was already uncool in the 80s.

The crowds I played D&D games with back in the day, consisted of a lot of punk rocker and heavy metal types (ie. guys with mohawks or long hair, and the other crap like punk/metal tshirts, leather jackets, ripped up jeans, doc martens, etc ...).

The "uncool" part of D&D and other rpgs back in the 80's was very apparent. None of us would talk about D&D or gaming in general, when we weren't playing.

 

[Mournblade94]

This thread is here for everyone to voice their opinion of what person or group made D&D seem really geeky and stupid, making them think the same of any who played it.
I'll start: LARPers. They are the idiots running around in a robe in the woods yelling "Lightning bolt" and hitting each other with foam swords

RIGHT! It is true, one should not actually EXERCISE while they are playing RPG's.

Oh yes and at LARPS you actually have to interact with people beyond the 4 at your table. This could actually cause gamers to exercise, AND work on their social skills.

As far as I can tell, D&D may be Geeky but it was NEVER stupid. I for one can care less what ever some other sub group thinks about gamers.

 

[Infiniti2000]

...AND work on their social skills.

No offense to LARPers, but I don't agree with that. LARPing is NOT working on social skills, any more than sitting around a table with 5 other people is working on your social skills. Pretending to be an elf and speaking in another language does not translate well with, say, trying to talk a member of the opposite sex to actually go out with you.

I have to agree though that LARPing does give RPGs in general a bad "name." Several times when people find out I play D&D, they say, "Oh, so you dress up ..." and I have jump in, "No! Definitely not!"

LARPing is more like the drama club. Gaming is more like the chess club. They do not overlap at all IMO.

 

[Bullgrit]

My memory has it that the activity was already uncool in the 80s.

Interesting. I don't remember ever being called uncool or feeling uncool for D&D in the 80s (I graduated high school in '85). I don't remember a single situation in my teen years that my playing D&D resulted in being labeled uncool by anyone. <shrug>

My friends and I never hid our gaming in the 80s -- we even sometimes had the books at school, and we sometimes talked about the game in front of our peers.

I don't remember D&D being a punchline in the popular media until the 90s.

Bullgrit

 

[Mournblade94]

No offense to LARPers, but I don't agree with that. LARPing is NOT working on social skills, any more than sitting around a table with 5 other people is working on your social skills. Pretending to be an elf and speaking in another language does not translate well with, say, trying to talk a member of the opposite sex to actually go out with you.

First of all there is no speaking in other languages, secondly there is nothing worse about pretending your an elf at a LARP or a tabletop or a console screen.

Second at these larps there are actually members of the opposite sex to interact with. That is a majour difference. Larps generally bring in 75 - 150 people an event. The male to female ratio is a pretty good 70/30 ratio. Many people I know have had changes to their social lives due to this.

I have to agree though that LARPing does give RPGs in general a bad "name." Several times when people find out I play D&D, they say, "Oh, so you dress up ..." and I have jump in, "No! Definitely not!"

D&D had this "bad name" WAY before larping came into the scene.

How is LArping "less geeky" than playing the game. You will be hard pressed to give convincing reasons.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I wonder how much of the uncool stigma we as grown men placed on ourselves.

When 25-30 year old women look back on what they did as 13-14 year old girls, it's all cute, fun, maybe even silly (in a cute and fun way). On average, in general, an adult woman would think it adorable to sit down and play with some 13-14 year old girls for an hour.

When 25-30 year old men look back on what they did as 13-14 year old boys, it's all dumb, dorky, useless (in a dumb and dorky way). On average, in general, an adult man would think it horrible to sit down and play with some 13-14 year old boys for an hour.

I think it comes more from ingrown societal expectations. [Let me preference this with the caveat that I don't believe in these expectations personally and I am a proponent of equal treatment of both genders.] Women are expected to nurture and raise our children. When they sit down with children of either gender to play children's games they are perceived as participating in a natural pursuit of their role. Men are expected to hunt or more appropriately for modern times, work. Spending time with the children playing games is unnatural and awkward. Some people even view such activity as creepy and perverse.

Take a look at socially accepted pasttimes for men. All of them have been turned into a form of work. Sports have high-paid professional athletes. Gambling, if you're good at it, can be a job all in it's own. Even casual golf (and other sports) are used as a way to climb the career ladder. Women who engage in these activities are seen as inferior. The WNBA and other women's leagues are a source of derision. Female golfers have their sexual preferences called into doubt.

The reason D&D didn't seem geeky to you in the '80's was because you were a kid and the expectations of adulthood weren't in place yet. The media pickup of mocking adults who played the game came about more in the '90's because of greater awareness of the game and the aging population of the player base.

 

[Umbran]

My friends and I never hid our gaming in the 80s -- we even sometimes had the books at school, and we sometimes talked about the game in front of our peers.

As a note, you're slightly older than I.

We didn't hide it either. That doesn't mean it was cool. That just means we didn't care if it was cool. We failed to hide a lot of uncool things....

I don't remember D&D being a punchline in the popular media until the 90s.

Yeah, but...

James Dallas Egbert III disappeared in 1979, and Mazes and Monsters was published in 1981. The Tom Hanks movie came out in 1982. Irving Pulling committed suicide in 1982. Patricia Pulling and Gary Gygax were on 60 Minutes in 1985....

The 80s were the height of bad press for D&D, and while maybe you didn't see any impact of that, I did.

 

[Bullgrit]

We didn't hide it either. That doesn't mean it was cool. That just means we didn't care if it was cool. We failed to hide a lot of uncool things....

Maybe we're using a different scale. To me: "not uncool" does not mean "cool"; there is a neutral zone between "uncool" and "cool."

For instance:

Being a rock guitarist = cool

Playing air guitar in public = uncool

Knowing how to play the guitar = neutral

James Dallas Egbert III disappeared in 1979, and Mazes and Monsters was published in 1981. The Tom Hanks movie came out in 1982. Irving Pulling committed suicide in 1982. Patricia Pulling and Gary Gygax were on 60 Minutes in 1985....

The 80s were the height of bad press for D&D, and while maybe you didn't see any impact of that, I did.

Bad press doesn't make for uncool. In fact, it can make for very cool.

And deaths attributed to something doesn't make it uncool, it makes it "dangerous." And to some teenagers, dangerous = cool.

I remember hearing some of the bad press about D&D, but it didn't result in "Ew, D&D is for dorks." It did ocassionally result in "Oh my god, D&D is evil."

Bullgrit

 

[ggroy]

Maybe we're using a different scale. To me: "not uncool" does not mean "cool"; there is a neutral zone between "uncool" and "cool."

For instance:

Being a rock guitarist = cool

Playing air guitar in public = uncool

Knowing how to play the guitar = neutral

This may also be generational/group and culture dependent.

When I was growing up and came of age, being a rock guitarist was cool.

Amongst the crowds my younger nephews and nieces' generation ran in, who grew up and came of age during the mid-late 1990's and early 2000's, "being a rock guitarist" was neutral and in some circles it was even considered uncool.