Question about teleportation

[Yair]

One of my PCs is using a nasty 2 magic item combination which I can’t believe is legal.

The two items are:

1. Gloves of Dimensional Repulsion (Vault 1 page 134)
2. Space Shifting Bolt (Vault 2 page 27)



Without those gloves, the arrows only teleport the enemy 1 square (in addition to all other power effects). But with those gloves, the teleported distance comes up to 3.



If it was only useful for putting the target behind some obstacles, or above open pit holes (with no save it seems), it would have been more then enough. But the player has come up with a strategy which seems to work even in a plain open field with no hazardous terrain: Teleport the target up to the sky!!



Falling from 3 squares is 1d10 damage (in addition to all else) and the target is PRONE.

When the going gets tough, this PC ranger uses his twin-shot at will power and every round at least one enemy crashes prone like that. Sometimes, when both his shots hit, he even got the nerve of asking for a 6-square teleport (he says the second shot “stroke home” before the creature actually fell from the first one, because he fired them so close to each other). So now, falling from 6 squares is an additional 3d 10 damage.

That’s a lot of extra damage! (More then his 2d6 hunter’s quarry bonus).

But most frustrating from my DM perspective view is the prone condition. This really hampers the enemy’s chances of ever catching that darn PC ranger.



This combination has a loop-hole smell to it. I tried to find some rule or errata that show you can’t teleport a creature into the air (or above a pit with no save). But I failed to find any.



Does anyone know of some law which prevents this rule-abuse, or is it a legal strategy?



Another trick: this player also uses another consumable arrow which lets him teleport adjacent to the target (forgot the name, same page as the Space Shifting Bolt). He uses it when he wants to cover up distance fast. He aims at some tree or bolder, shoots, and thus teleports some 40 squares in a single standard action. Now I’m afraid he might do it with his twin-shot at will, and teleport 80 squares with single standard action. I tried to tell him that this works only if he hits “an enemy”, but he says that the tree was his enemy. Who decides what an enemy is? If the player thinks the tree is a treat, does it work? If he is allergic to trees, or to the trees flowers, does it work? This entire subject really makes me confused…



Help, anyone?

[Actually the above is from another DM, who asked me to post it for him...]

 

[sev]

Those arrows aren't free. Is ammunition like that expended? At lower levels, that sounds like a lot of gold. And at higher levels, spending your hands slot *and* an arrow for 1d10 damage: is that really that big of a deal? vs. other hands-slot items of similar level that give a +4 to damage, for example. Or a firestorm arrow, same price, 2d6 damage to target & all adjacent to it. I mean, if you're going to spend 125 gold per shot, there's more efficient things to do.

Regarding targetting the tree:

Legitimate targets, DMG p. 40:
"the power functions only when the target in question is a meaningful threat. Characters can gain no benefit from carrying a sack of rats in hopes of healing their allies by hitting the rats."

 

[cdrcjsn]

Download the errata.

"Teleportation
Page 286: Replace the text for the Destination entry
and the Immobilized entry. This change addresses
what happens when a creature is forced to teleport,
and it clarifies that the Immobilized entry includes
restrained as well.

Destination: Your destination must be a space
you can occupy without squeezing. If arriving in
the destination space would cause the target to fall
or if that space is hindering terrain, the target can
make a saving throw. On a save, the teleportation is
negated.

Immobilized or Restrained: Being immobilized or
restrained doesn’t prevent a target from teleporting.
If a target teleports away from a physical restraint, a
monster’s grasp, or some other immobilizing effect
that is located in a specific space, the target is no
longer immobilized or restrained. Otherwise, the
target teleports but is still immobilized or restrained
when it reaches the destination space."

The target gets a save to negate the teleport.

As for using ammo, yeah they're useful. But he shouldn't be able to afford to keep using them all the time. If he downgrades to lower level enhancement bonus ammo, then he's effectively nerfing himself because he'll hit less often. Sometimes, the effect is worth it to lose a bonus to hit, but it's still a significant tradeoff.

 

[Aulirophile]

Forced movement of any kind cannot be vertical. Any hazardous terrain (holes count) anyone gets a saving throw to have it just not happen. If you pass the saving throw, teleport never happens.

In addition to all that, the gloves would have to read "When you use a teleport item on a target." Magical properties are not "powers".

Didn't see the last part. I think "threatening targets" is covered in the DMG. And the answer is: The DM decides if a target is threatening. If you say a rock isn't threatening, he can't munch... err, shoot it.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Forced movement of any kind cannot be vertical. Any hazardous terrain (holes count) anyone gets a saving throw to have it just not happen. If you pass the saving throw, teleport never happens.

Teleportation isn't forced movement. It is a completely separate type of movement with it's very own rules.

In addition to all that, the gloves would have to read "When you use a teleport item on a target." Magical properties are not "powers".

Magical properties add effects to powers. So if you use the arrow with a power you are using a teleport power.

 

[Obryn]

If it was only useful for putting the target behind some obstacles, or above open pit holes (with no save it seems), it would have been more then enough. But the player has come up with a strategy which seems to work even in a plain open field with no hazardous terrain: Teleport the target up to the sky!!

Falling from 3 squares is 1d10 damage (in addition to all else) and the target is PRONE.

As mentioned above, the errata patches this exploit pretty well.

I tried to tell him that this works only if he hits “an enemy”, but he says that the tree was his enemy. Who decides what an enemy is? If the player thinks the tree is a treat, does it work? If he is allergic to trees, or to the trees flowers, does it work? This entire subject really makes me confused…

See the 4e DMG, re: Sacks of Rats.

-O

 

[Yair]

Thanks guys.

 

[Mort_Q]

By the current standard (PH3), 'if arriving in the destination space would cause the target to fall or if that space is hindering terrain, the target can make a saving throw. On a save, the teleportation is negated.'

As sev and Obryn have already stated... Legitimate targets are required to activate powers.