Virtual Tabletop software?

[OnlineDM]

MapTool is the best, in my opinion. Now, I've never tried the paid tools that others have discussed, but with MapTool I have never felt the need to explore a paid option. I had previously used OpenRPG and GameTable (now known as OSU-gt), and as soon as I discovered MapTool I never looked back.

If you're just getting into running games online, you might be interested in reading my blog, which I started as soon as I became interested in running games online. If you just want to see my experiences with MapTool, those posts are under the MapTool tag.

And if you want any help or pointers, drop me a line! My Gmail address is OnlineDungeonMaster.

 

[Sigurd]

_ONE TIME_ Costs

If anyone has looked at the cost of gas or experienced the change in people's schedules as they get jobs, move around, have kids etc... they will realize that a one time cost per person of less than $50 is not a lot.

I bought FG when it first came out (I might have been the first purchaser here on enworld ) and I have never paid anything for all the gaming I've done with it since.

Yes maptool is free but I find it clunky. Fantasy grounds is elegant with a really natural user interface. On top of that, it really seems to be improving a lot recently.

Cost to me is now well under 0.25 an hour.

I can't drive to see all the players I find in a week, much less an evening. Even my close friends an hour away would cost $10+ in gas on an evening and I'd be spending 2 hours in transit. I get stuff done around the house, (Laundry etc) and I'm here for phone calls. My wife is ok with me giving 4 hours on an evening to gaming because its mostly just 4 hours.

I recommend Fantasy Grounds and VTTs to anyone who finds face to face difficult. If its a one time cost don't let it stop you from picking the interface you like. I don't begrudge a company a couple of bucks when they wrote the software, don't charge by the hour, and give you support.

Maptool is a great project too. I just like FG better. I haven't tried any other VTTs.


I think its alarmist and unfair to post group costs without talking per person cost. If your game is not worth 40 bucks to play\DM then you've certainly never actually bought many books and don't spend anything to get to sessions.

Buy a setup to let you game and DM (for FG that's 39.95 USD) you're done. The other players will have to pony up as well.

If you want to carry the costs for your players, you can make other choices (In FG a license that lets people join without a paid license is 149.95 USD). I don't really understand this as I've always let players buy their own books, snacks, dice etc.... If your players aren't into the game enough to spend forty bucks they're likely not very interested.

Unlike any of the bazillion other game products I have, I use my VTT every single game. It saves me money and makes the game possible.


I'm not slamming any other program. I don't get anything for this.

I just hate hearing the implication that this is somehow expensive when it has saved me so much money. I've had games with people all over the world - time zone is actually an issue. It's the biggest, cheapest, improvement I've made to gaming.


Sigurd

 

[xaotik1]

I'll have to agree with Sigurd here, the gas savings alone make it worth the money I've spent on FG. Sure there are plenty of free VTTs out there, and I've used Map Tools, Screen Monkey, Kloodge, and any number of others, and the only one that even compares is Battlegrounds. Spending a few bucks for years worth of convenient play is hardly a chore, and frankly, if you play almost any RPG out there now, 40 bucks is probably less that what you paid to get the players guide and gamemasters guide. Seeing as the cut down version of the d20srd, 4e, and about 20 other rulesets come free with FG, or at the least are freely available, you can hardly fault them for the asking cost.

Even beyond the cost though, is the constant upgrading and easily modified rulesets and modules that come with FG itself. With a minimum of effort, you can alter any number of rulesets to fit whatever game you want to play, regardless of system. The graphics are solid, the chat has quite a few nice options in it, and it's overall a very simple system to learn, making it pretty player friendly. My only real beef with it is that it should come with voice chat as an option Though, seeing as the competition hasn't really integrated voice in, I can't really complain there either.

I will say that I like the Battlegrounds maps better. They have a number of functions and options that I like to use when playing games like Battletech and Robotech, but even at that, I still prefer FG for just about every game I play/run.

 

[Xorne]

I use FG2 as well; I've been very happy with the interface and the wide array of rulesets and community support. I have set up MapTools and tested it out extensively, and it's a nice tabletop, especially when it comes to map/token manipulation. In the end I preferred the integrated, ruleset specific character sheets, and the DM tools available. (And the combat tracker, oh my! I also fiddled with the Battlegrounds demo as well--it seemed solid, I think I preferred some of it's options to MapTools, but I haven't used either in over a year.

I've been very happy with FG2. When my gaming group first decided to pick it up, we ended up getting 1 Full (DM) and 6 lite (Player) licenses as a group purchase. I think it was something like 60% off! But I paid a greater portion of the bill because I ended up with the DM client. I mention this because I found the rant about a DM paying more for a full client instead of a player client.

If I walked into my FLGS and ranted at the owner that I should get the DMG and MM for free when I buy the PHB, "Because I'm bringing the game to my players!" His response would be:

...

That's it. You know the facial expression that represents; there's no point in trying to use words, because the closest summation to his reaction is, "DOT... DOT... DOT".

I recommend trying the demos out for different VTTs and see which ones meet your needs.

 

[Hussar]

I just hate hearing the implication that this is somehow expensive when it has saved me so much money. I've had games with people all over the world - time zone is actually an issue. It's the biggest, cheapest, improvement I've made to gaming.

I'm not talking about how expensive it is. I'm talking about how the DM is expected to pay triple what the players pay. It's not like FG is the only one doing this. It seems that every pay VTT does this - the DM's client is the full featured program and costs twice to three times as much as the "player" client.

It's completely bogus.

And the analogy to the DMG, PHB, MM is a false one. If I want to run a game, I have to buy all three books. If I don't want to run a game, I don't. But, if I want to run a game over Fantasy grounds, I have to pay three times what everyone else does.

And what do I get for this? What added value do I get, other than the ability to host the game? When I buy a Monster Manual, I gain the stats and information on hundreds of monsters. When I buy a DMG, I gain information on a number of issues related to running a game of D&D.

What added value do I get for buying the DM client?

If all clients were the same price, I'd have zero bitch. My sole gripe here is that DM's are getting the shaft. The company producing the VTT has no choice, they HAVE to create a DM's client. That's a given. They then have to go about crippling that client to make a player's client.

Why not have just one client? Oh, that's right, everyone expects the DM to pony up the cash to run the game.

And, btw, nice snide commentary that my game isn't worth 40 bucks. Hey, if you're groovy with the idea of being screwed over because you want to run a game, that's fine. Whatever floats your boat. Me, I see it as a pure money grab and completely bogus.

I'd love to see something like the next Halo release come out where you have to pay extra to be able to take videos in game. That would fly so well.

 

[Hussar]

Just to be 100% crystal clear here. I don't care how fantastic FG is. I couldn't care less if it's the greatest VTT in the world. I love VTT's. I've been using them for almost eight years now, in weekly and sometimes twice weekly gaming. You don't have to sell me on how great VTT play is. I know it's great.

My sole, lone, complete complaint is the double pricing where if you want to run a game you get to pay three times what the players pay, while gaining absolutely nothing.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Just a quick aside: How can somebody refuse a netbook and then get an iPad? The imagination boggles.

Simple: form and function. Netbooks fail to meet the needs that I have. An iPad looked like it would, so I bought one. So far, it's satified my needs, exceeded my expectations, and is actually quite useful for my purposes. For anything major, I've still got my desktop machine.

It's all about figuring out what's going to be the right tool for the job. Apparently your jobs are different than mine. Not surprising really. *shrug*

 

[Naszir]

And the combat tracker, oh my!.

Absolutely! The combat tracker is a great tool. For our 4e games the ability to drag effects onto characters/monsters in the combat tracker really cuts down on trying to remember who was marked/dazed/stunned/restrained/has ongoing damage etc. and for how long it is going to last. Just drag the effect from the character power or monster stat block and drop it in the appropriate place. Great, great stuff!

 

[tdewitt274]

To Hassur: Well, you are correct. You are getting no added value by purchasing a GM copy of any VTT. You are, however, getting added functionality. Yes, they are different. You do have a valid argument on price, which I would like to comment on.

The simple economics of computer software are obvious. Less functionality means less price. Check out any of the Microsoft Office productivity software. You are getting less if you only buy the basic package. Pay a little more and you get Access. Look at the Windows OS. Buy the Basic and you don't get the added features that make. Why would you buy the lesser? Price and need. Don't need Access, buy the smaller option. Yes, even some Open Source has this option (in the form of Service Plans) and "core OS".

What does this have to do with VTT? It's a similar concept to the OS example. If you have the GM and Player software at the same price, why bother selling two versions? Because a Player doesn't want to pay $40 for what they are not going to use. This translates into a lost sale. If you lower the price and strip the functionality, you have a product that appeals to the Player.

Sure, the GM gets "shafted" because they have to pay a higher price. This is the nature of economics in a computer software environment. Sure, they could lower the GM price. However, this would need to be compensated with raising the Player price to offset development costs for the ENTIRE application. There are more players out there than GMs, just look at PH/DMG sales for proof.

Your group is unique in that you have so many people willing to be a GM. In the glory days of my group, we had 14 people and only 3 of them would GM. Now, we have 5 and only 2 GM.

In the end, VTT is a business. I don't know how the Free VTTs do it, but I'm sure there's some kind of community support or advertisments that offset the bandwidth for hosting a game, downloading the application, supporting, customer feedback, development, and their main site. It all depends on the business model. Maybe that additional cost helps with the above in some way.

Finally, I stumbled onto this thread because Sylrae was asking for recommendations of VTT. The others are trying to answer your question and Sylrae's at the same time. They are not trying to influence you, only to give their viewpoint as well as defend a product that they find valuable.

For the record, I have only used Fantasy Grounds. I find the challenge of programming a ruleset intriguing and the Campaign Mangement features are appealing to me for when I do eventually GM.

 

[Festivus]

If anyone has looked at the cost of gas or experienced the change in people's schedules as they get jobs, move around, have kids etc... they will realize that a one time cost per person of less than $50 is not a lot.

I bought FG when it first came out (I might have been the first purchaser here on enworld ) and I have never paid anything for all the gaming I've done with it since.

Yes maptool is free but I find it clunky. Fantasy grounds is elegant with a really natural user interface. On top of that, it really seems to be improving a lot recently.

Cost to me is now well under 0.25 an hour.

I can't drive to see all the players I find in a week, much less an evening. Even my close friends an hour away would cost $10+ in gas on an evening and I'd be spending 2 hours in transit. I get stuff done around the house, (Laundry etc) and I'm here for phone calls. My wife is ok with me giving 4 hours on an evening to gaming because its mostly just 4 hours.

I recommend Fantasy Grounds and VTTs to anyone who finds face to face difficult. If its a one time cost don't let it stop you from picking the interface you like. I don't begrudge a company a couple of bucks when they wrote the software, don't charge by the hour, and give you support.

Maptool is a great project too. I just like FG better. I haven't tried any other VTTs.


I think its alarmist and unfair to post group costs without talking per person cost. If your game is not worth 40 bucks to playDM then you've certainly never actually bought many books and don't spend anything to get to sessions.

Buy a setup to let you game and DM (for FG that's 39.95 USD) you're done. The other players will have to pony up as well.

If you want to carry the costs for your players, you can make other choices (In FG a license that lets people join without a paid license is 149.95 USD). I don't really understand this as I've always let players buy their own books, snacks, dice etc.... If your players aren't into the game enough to spend forty bucks they're likely not very interested.

Unlike any of the bazillion other game products I have, I use my VTT every single game. It saves me money and makes the game possible.


I'm not slamming any other program. I don't get anything for this.

I just hate hearing the implication that this is somehow expensive when it has saved me so much money. I've had games with people all over the world - time zone is actually an issue. It's the biggest, cheapest, improvement I've made to gaming.


Sigurd

It *is* expensive when you consider that Maptool is FREE. But beyond that, I agree that Maptool is not for everyone.

I think you will find the following to be true:
Maptool is more complex to get up and running than Fantasy Grounds. It may require a degree of tinkering and reading to get things exactly the way you want, particularly if you plan on using a framework. These are not overly complex things, but it does require a bit of time investment to get it done.

People who just want a program that is going to work with minimal tinkering will find Fantasy Grounds more to their liking. I found that I was able to get Fantasy Grounds 3.5 game up and running in minutes with a minimum of fuss (really was just opening ports on my firewall and I was done).

I believe that technical support for both Maptool and Fantasy Grounds is via message boards and community support, unless something has changed and you can now get someone on a phone line for help with Fantasy Grounds, which would be an edge to that product.