Pre 4e, as DM I'd routinely expect to have to look up a spell every time someone cast it, unless it was one of the small number of common spells we'd eventually memorise. Since pre-4e spells were so powerful that they'd often end the combat, this didn't seem like a terrible thing.
Has the DM fallen from grace?
- Thread starter ForeverSlayer
- Start date
Pre 4e, as DM I'd routinely expect to have to look up a spell every time someone cast it, unless it was one of the small number of common spells we'd eventually memorise. Since pre-4e spells were so powerful that they'd often end the combat, this didn't seem like a terrible thing.
The above is what I was saying the whole time.
The way it works is when something magical comes with in range of that cone it registers as magic. Now it doesn't get into specifics until you concentrate more. It pretty much goes from, the party is generating magic, to specific items begin to glow and you will eventually know which items are magical and what schools they come from.
Some people seem to think that as soon as you cast it you only know that there is magic somewhere in the room which is false. You know there is magic within range of that cone and if an adventuring party walks in and they stand in that cone then you know they have something to do with magic if its present.
I have no problem what so ever with the stat blocks. Instead of having to flip back and forth through the books I started photocopying the pages and have them right there when I was building my monsters.
I would also use Excel to create my monster blocks.
It works just the way I want it to. Let me make it a little simple for you.
Dragon knows party is coming in through various means such as spells or a listen check.
Dragon throws up a Detect Magic.
Party walks in and comes with in 60ft of the dragon. Dragon notices the party has magic present. Well initiative hasn't started so we are looking at 18 seconds for Detect Magic gets it's full effect. The dragon talks to the party for a bit in order to get specific information.
Now several things can go on here. Dragon's aren't stupid at all and they know they most adventurer's carry magical treasures as well as protection from spells. Round 1 of Detect Magic will let him know that there is magic involved with that group. Now he could decide to not take any chances and just blow them away with his breath weapon and destroy everything, even magic items that the party may be carrying. Or he could go toe to toe with the party and kill them without damaging any magic items that could be there.
Now if the dragon wishes to stall a bit longer he can get a little more information which would take 12 seconds. If he wanted to get the full effect of the spell then he could stall a bit longer and find our specifics.
Also don't forget that using Detect Magic along with Spellcraft allows you to know certain things about one person or one item and that has a no action cost.
The point of the whole thing is to show that even low level spells can be useful and people can find uses for certain spells that others seem not able to do.
Here is a little something you need to acknowledge. Just because you weren't unenpowered that doesn't mean other's have not and vice versa. I don't have to look at my own house because I am a part of many different houses and all you have to do is back and read through the past editions.
If your player's empowered you then that's fine but that's not really the discussion here.
It's become more about the player's and less about the DM. The game is moving into a direction where the will eventually be out of a job. The DMG tells DM's to refrain from telling the PC's no and that's taking some of the DM's right away. This all goes with the trust issue. I trust my DM and my guys trust me. If I say no they understand that when I say no to something that I mean it, I don't say no just to say no.
I have seen a lot of different games going on and I am seeing player's respect the DM less and less because the player's have this notion that the game is all about them and as long as they are having fun then everything is where it should be. I have read many many threads about the player's feeling entitled while the DM is there to cater to them.
FireLance
Legend
Right. Which was why I prefaced my initial comment with "Assuming combat had not already started, of course." And in addition, for this specific scenario, "Assuming the party doesn't immediately attack the dragon."
Yes because we have already have video games which allow you to do this without a DM.
DM-less table top role playing really defeats the whole purpose.
D'karr
Adventurer
That however is a problem with the players at that particular table in general, not with the game specifically fostering that kind of behavior.
All of the games that we are talking about here have specific "instructions" that players should run their "ideas" by the DM as he's the one running the game.
All of these games encourage the DM by letting him know that he's the one in charge of running the game, and that the game needs to be fun for ALL. The DM is also part of that ALL.
When some guidelines say, "say yes." What they are recommending is that the DM should consider why he wants to say NO. If after he considers it he deems that it's not really warranted then he should consider saying YES. A lot of people say no instinctively without even considering the issue, it's simply easier. So the DMG recommends at least considering the alternative. Is that a bad thing? Does that suddenly relegate the DM to second tier? NO, it's simply a good recommendation. If I said NO to everything my kids ask to do, they'd be cooked up in the house until they were of legal age. At times I have to take the time to reconsider why I'm saying no. Is it out of a valid concern, or because it's simply the easy way out?
Yes, some people might "feel" empowered, and others not by these recommendations. Isn't that the same with everything? The book makes recommendations, how people feel about them is a completely different thing.
I think that as the game has progressed the DMs have been given better tools to evaluate whether a request is reasonable, and whether allowing it is not going to break their game.
As someone mentioned they found some things unpalatable and excised them. Did the game all of a sudden stop and the world end? No, the DM made a value judgement, that only he could make because he's the only one that knows the individuals at that table. He decided to make an informed NO, rather than a hasty and expedient one.
The newer guidelines help a lot with making those informed, well-thought out decisions rather than the emotional, knee-jerk ones.
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FireLance
Legend
And you know the key characteristic of a video game?
When you want to do something that the video game hasn't anticipated, it always says, "No."
What then is the point of having a human DM who acts like a video game?
