Scales of War #1 Rescue at Rivenroar (Full)

[Thanee]

Well, I can certainly try Nature...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Goonalan]

Here's the thing I don't understand...

Why don't PCs just roll skill checks... regardless of whether they are good at them or not, the chances of a '20' up or a '19', or an '18' etc are just the same.

My point is in my RL game the biggest talker and roller of Diplomacy is our Dwarf Fighter with a +3 for Level (I think he's 7th level). He more or less instigates every social encounter, he does a good bit of chat to go with it but... He still gets to roll.

Likewise when someone says we should check for Divine then why not lots of people try, or at least anybody try?

I'm failing to see the downside of anyone trying to use any skill, except perhaps when we're in a Skill Challenge.

Tiornys, showed the way- are they all trained skills...

My point is a good roll and you're done, anybody can try anything- particularly at heroic level when the DCs are low.

Go for it.

PDR

 

[Thanee]

Ok.

Bye
Thanee

 

[RavenBlackthorne]

I guess that's why we don't!

 

[tiornys]

One reason why people might avoid skill checks is that failure can carry negative consequences. I agree that it makes sense for anyone to attempt, say, a monster knowledge check, since failure simply leaves you in the same place as no attempt. Trying to jump a pit on the other hand? Failure can be MUCH worse than not trying at all. Diplomacy is definitely an area where failure can carry negative consequences.

Moving to the current situation, they way you used the word "divine" did not, to me, particularly say that a Religion check was necessary to figure out what was going on with the pool. Not only do I not expect to have to interpret sly puns for clues, it was also very possible to interpret the phrase as referring to a divining rod, which I would read as Nature (or Arcana, but that had been eliminated).

So on the one hand, I understand where you might be frustrated that no one was attempting a full array of knowledge checks. On the other hand, you were being rather coy about which knowledge was applicable. There's absolutely nothing in your initial description of the alcove to hint at a religious presence. And while you did reference churches in your response to Viator's Arcana check, that came right before the action sequence with the scrying pool. Frankly, I completely missed that reference at the time, and I suspect the others did too (I only spotted it because I like to double check myself when talking about things that others have done).

As for why Ah-shahran hadn't made any checks? I think the IC post answers that.

t~

 

[Goonalan]

One reason why people might avoid skill checks is that failure can carry negative consequences. I agree that it makes sense for anyone to attempt, say, a monster knowledge check, since failure simply leaves you in the same place as no attempt. Trying to jump a pit on the other hand? Failure can be MUCH worse than not trying at all. Diplomacy is definitely an area where failure can carry negative consequences.

Moving to the current situation, they way you used the word "divine" did not, to me, particularly say that a Religion check was necessary to figure out what was going on with the pool. Not only do I not expect to have to interpret sly puns for clues, it was also very possible to interpret the phrase as referring to a divining rod, which I would read as Nature (or Arcana, but that had been eliminated).

So on the one hand, I understand where you might be frustrated that no one was attempting a full array of knowledge checks. On the other hand, you were being rather coy about which knowledge was applicable. There's absolutely nothing in your initial description of the alcove to hint at a religious presence. And while you did reference churches in your response to Viator's Arcana check, that came right before the action sequence with the scrying pool. Frankly, I completely missed that reference at the time, and I suspect the others did too (I only spotted it because I like to double check myself when talking about things that others have done).

As for why Ah-shahran hadn't made any checks? I think the IC post answers that.

t~

While I agree with all of the above I also think the following is true, from my POV.

Clues are going to be 'coy', if clues were more overt then... they wouldn't be clues- they be statements unhindered by mystery et al. If I wanted you to make a Religion check I'd ask for one. If I wanted to be clever I'd use the word divine- knowing it has a few interpretations and that those that saw through my ruse would use the correct skills (or else, I thought, try the usual 'knowledge' style skills). I don't sit here thinking they'll never get this, I sit here thinking I'm not that bright and there are five of them... Someone's bound to see through my silly trick. Also remember that many times the words I use are drawn forth with the help of my subconscious- this isn't (for the most part) crafted, this is just stuff what I wrote.

I agree with the negatives for failure of skill checks (as you state above), however I hope that by now, x months down the track, you have seen through my tough shell to the inner me- soft, gooey and kind-hearted. I hope then with that in mind you will not fear to try things in future (skill checks etc.). I try to make it clear (or only lightly obscurred) at what points failure is not an option, or else has dire consequences. If I'm failing to do so then please say.

Lastly, and back to the coy, I never tell my RL players what skill check to make- that's not to say I shouldn't here (for a myriad reasons). If other DMs do this then please say- and I will consider doing so in future.

As to the original ref to the alcove, there is nothing to hint at the religious aspect in the actual scenario- save for the fact that you are in a complex of crypts etc. (that wasn't a jibe). I added the glowing shimmering aspect to the water because... I wanted you to continue your search (another clue). Perhaps the light was the water reacting to the presence of you lot- the good guys. You'll note I also started the encounter with Thurann trying to get in to the alcove, and then hiding there- this was not so much a clue as me saying... but look where the boy is, that's something new, or strange, or...

A pool of water is visible, the light shimmering off it at the far side of the chamber. But that's not it...

Is all the way back to the original description when Kali arrives in the chamber. I try my best, sometimes that's not good enough- I will try harder I promise.

Apologies to anyone if I'm getting their backs up with my chatter, and why don't you... etc. I'm on the learning curve, and happy to have such excellent tutors.

Cheers PDR

 

[Goonalan]

I guess that's why we don't!

I feel the need to respond to this, while I realise it's a joke- I get it, you're being mischevious.

For every '1' there is a '20', and the chances are exactly the same. I guess in RL where the rolling of a dice requires perhaps less effort then... well it just gets done more often (although not excessively so).

I'm trying to encourage players to try things, in D&D (and RPG) there's a lot of demarcation- player X does this, player Y does this etc. Obviously players decide on which Skills to take and then major on using those skills in game. But the skill system in 4e allows every PC a chance to somehow use every skill- if they didn't want players to do this then you'd only be allowed to make skill checks in the skills you're trained at.

Furthermore you gain a +1 on all skills for every two levels- experience, you've been around. That alone, from my POV, is there to encourage players to use all of their skills, as the need arises. This of course is a break/change from previous versions of D&D, which didn't offer the same incentive.

My point, long-winded I know, is-

You can use any of your skills, sometimes there will be consequences for failure- I hope that I will do enough to make you aware when you're in one of those situations. Other times skill checks- any skill checks (trained or not) are good things- they represent knowledge gained over time (experience).

In this crazy world of PBP, from a DMs perspective (this DM), then the way I parcel out info is somewhat dependent on skill checks (rightly or wrongly), that's the mechanic. Without them I hint, with them (and with high rolls) then your reward (info) will be forthcoming.

Skill Checks = Info.

Keep rolling.

 

[Goonalan]

It seems we are at an impasse, here's the lowdown...

Larry is out of the game for a while, big problems in RL, he's e-mailed me I'll not go in to details but he's going to be away from the game until things get better.

Goken/Freggo update, I have e-mailed him and messaged him all with no reply- all positive, 'we miss you' etc. Telling him what we've been up to etc. As I say no reply. I really can't e-mail him any more, it would be rude etc.

And so we're two down leaving four players at the table- [MENTION=17633]tiornys[/MENTION], [MENTION=478]Thanee[/MENTION], [MENTION=83060]RavenBlackthorne[/MENTION] & [MENTION=6680999]Blutspitze[/MENTION]

Which leaves us in a what to do for the best situation, options are:-

1) Game on hold until either a) Larry returns, or b) Goken returns, or c) both return, or d) both disappear (maybe temporarily) and we re-recruit.

2) I/We find a new recruit or two (temporary hopefully) and we continue.

3) We play on with a) two of you guys doubling up (take two PCs), or else b)one of you doubles up and I take the other, or else c) I take the spare two characters and you guys stay as you are. But we play on.

Please get back to me asap with your preferred option/s please. I have a list of a few names for option 2- players from my other (defunct) PBP and one or two others I could try.

I vote for 3 or 2.

Just to say there's not much of this scenario left, when we're done with it then I think we need to reassess the situation.

I am not giving up, even if I have to play out the rest of it on my own, and then recruit again, this is the only D&D I get- that wasn't supposed to sound churlish of me, it was supposed to sound positive... Promise.

Cheers Paul

 

[RavenBlackthorne]

I vote 3 or 2 also (and would be willing to be one who runs a second).

I'm really enjoying this game and really would love to see it go beyond this single adventure.

I realise we've slowed a little but I think we've done really well to keep a fairly cracking pace up til now. I, for one, will certainly get back on it.

Don't worry, [MENTION=16069]Goonalan[/MENTION], we're with ya.

 

[Blutspitze]

I'm for 2 or 3 as well. I wouldn't be able to take on another, though; I'm barely getting into Kali and my RL work and personal stuff is piling up, certainly want to continue with this, though; it's very enjoyable and, like [MENTION=16069]Goonalan[/MENTION], this is the only D&D I'm getting now and really do need it. I'm ready for the bumpy road.