D&D 4E A thought on WotC's imperative to continue to digitally support 4e.

[WheresMyD20]

Don't worry. No one from WotC is going to show up to take your 4e books away. You can keep playing 4e for as long as you like.

 

[Incenjucar]

There is absolutely an issue of length of support.

Right now, owning a DDI account is an investment in the continued availability of 4E rules. Given that 4E was marked for death two years into the edition, WotC has shown that they are willing to move on very, very quickly. 4E fans have gotten a bit spoiled by DDI's automated tools, and it is a significant time and energy saver for them that they have been happy to pay for. Having that time-saver removed is like getting their internet speed throttled back. It won't END their games, but it will make them take more effort.

5E players will be in the exact same situation if 5E doesn't do well. For 5E players to be certain that investing in DDI 5E is a sound way to spend their money, they will need to know that, even if 5E gets killed off as quickly of 5E, they'll be able to play it with the same ease of use as before 6E came out.

Even if it's fair, losing access to a service you've come to rely on sucks.

 

[bss]

If nothing else, dropping 4e DDI support so soon after finally struggling to get a game table kinda-sorta ready (and one that was designed to include "all" editions, at that) and the improvements of the recently rewritten Monster Builder and the most-critical Character Builder would prove to me that either no one is watching the wheel at Wizards, or their masters have demanded it be torn from the ship.

However much money they've thrown at DDI's tools, to just turn it off would be an erratic move, and indeed foster no goodwill. One would hope they learned from Pathfinder that telling their existing customers to sod off doesn't do them well long-term.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

This point is very important for me as well. I've switched from buying lots of books to paying for the DDI subscription model - and I'm enjoying it very much.

Furthermore, 4e is a game with intricate rules (for combat ), which makes running it with a computer much more elegant than without one.

Important is the length of service. If the digital offerings are available as long as I run my current campaigns, all is well. But if the tools are switched off or taken down before that, I'll be rather annoyed.

Yes I know that the Secret WotC Police won't turn up at my door and burn my 4e books. I'll proceed with the campaign, perhaps shortening the arc a bit. Nevertheless my trust as customer of WotC subscriptions would be destroyed by such a development. And my trust as customer of physical WotC products will take a hit as well.

 

[Number48]

First of all, DDI isn't going away. They want those digital subscriptions and they want them to expand. But you can expect that they're going to try to wean you off 4E. If 4E players have no reason to buy the current products, then they are no longer customers. You don't provide support if that supports cost more than the money coming in for it. So expect to see new sections that are 5E-centered. Then the 5E will be the default with a sub-board for 4E. Then all of 4E material will be available in "the archives" with the only current stuff being the tools. Then the rights to the 4E tools will be licensed off to another company and the only 4E support online will be through a much smaller company.

WotC HAS to get you to become 5E players. Supporting a shrinking population of 4E players makes as much sense as them running a fantasy-football league, it's allocating resources to people who aren't customers.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Supporting past stuff is nice.

But it is just that. Nice. I don't feel it is imperative they do so. A company is not morally or ethically obligated to support a product forever. We are not entitled to more support than we pay for. If I buy a book, I get the book. If I pay for a subscription, I get content from it only so long as the subscription lasts, as agreed when I took on the subscription. Anything more is gravy.

Well, I agree, to a point. However, it would definitely sway my decision as to whether to subscribe to a 5e subscription or not.

My point, too, is that lots of 4e players only bought the core books (or not even the core books) and have come to rely upon D&DI as their source for playing 4e. If WotC were to cancel that, then WotC would, in a sense, be taking people's books away.


I think it was a huge mistake when they tried to kill 3e to force conversion to 4e. (Pulling licenses, restricting GSL, dropping pdfs, etc.) I, too think it would be a huge mistake to try to kill 4e to force conversion to 5e...and I would worry about it becoming a pattern if/when a 6e came out.



Don't get me wrong, I would buy books for 5e based upon its merits. But how WotC treats D&DI support for 4e will be how I'll gauge their digital support for 5e.

and

How WotC treats 4e in general will be how I'll be gauging their support for 5e.

 

[Tallifer]

First of all, DDI isn't going away. They want those digital subscriptions and they want them to expand. But you can expect that they're going to try to wean you off 4E. If 4E players have no reason to buy the current products, then they are no longer customers. You don't provide support if that supports cost more than the money coming in for it. So expect to see new sections that are 5E-centered. Then the 5E will be the default with a sub-board for 4E. Then all of 4E material will be available in "the archives" with the only current stuff being the tools. Then the rights to the 4E tools will be licensed off to another company and the only 4E support online will be through a much smaller company.

WotC HAS to get you to become 5E players. Supporting a shrinking population of 4E players makes as much sense as them running a fantasy-football league, it's allocating resources to people who aren't customers.

I do not agree with that. Right now, they get thousands of dollars every month from subscribers. Why lose that? Right now they get nothing from other player bases. Their best strategy would be to attract more players and get them to pay, while at the same time keeping their present subscribers.

Keep the Fourth Edition tools forever in tandem with the Fifth and Sixth Edition tools. Get money from tow and three and more sections of the players.

 

[Number48]

But you'd make a better customer for them if they get you to buy new product AND stay subscribed. They can't get you to buy new product by competing with themselves. The 4E support has to stop sometime. You can't reasonably expect it to be supported for 50 years, right? The question is simply when.

 

[Tallifer]

But you'd make a better customer for them if they get you to buy new product AND stay subscribed. They can't get you to buy new product by competing with themselves. The 4E support has to stop sometime. You can't reasonably expect it to be supported for 50 years, right? The question is simply when.

If the Fifth Edition books are worth buying, if the Fifth Edition is worth my while to stop playing the Fourth and switch to the Fifth. then that will be great. But if I decide that the Fourth is much better, than nothing will lure me to switch. I will just become a grognard and play using my old books. However, if they keep the tools for the next ten or so years, then they will still get my money regardless of edition.

Here is hoping however that the Fifth Edition is a worthy successor to my favourite edition. I would sincerely like to support it and play it amongst a large and growing following.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

But you'd make a better customer for them if they get you to buy new product AND stay subscribed. They can't get you to buy new product by competing with themselves. The 4E support has to stop sometime. You can't reasonably expect it to be supported for 50 years, right? The question is simply when.

This is true.

If they can FORCE me to switch to 5e, that'd be great for them.

But they can't. Attempting to force 3e players to switch to 4e created pathfinder (because apparently lots of people didn't want to switch). The same will be true of an unknown number of 4e players if they try to "motivate" them to switch by turning off D&DI.



Thing is, I can reasonably expect 4e D&DI to be supported for 50 years. If they need to do nothing new to it at all, apart from continuing to make it available (for a fee) then yes, I think there's no reason for them to ever stop supporting it. Conversely, if it's a better model for them to bundle and sell it as a one time purchase, I can imagine that'd be viable as well.

Before they went all piracy crazy they supported all editions with PDF sales. They're "looking into" providing those pdfs again in some way (reportedly, supposedly....I'm not holding my breath). I will say, though, that I think it'd be a good idea if they did finally figure out a way to make older edition pdfs (or kindle, or whathaveyou) available along with the release of 5e.


4e players aren't going to switch to 5e if it doesn't scratch their 4e itch. Whether D&DI is working for 4e or not, that'll be the case. (Potential 3pp retroclone like Pathfinder, using old books, buying bargain out of print books etc will all allow for this).

However, trying to shut down the edition will likely entrench 4e fans in their own edition, fan edition war flames, and decrease the likelihood of an eventual switch.

I'm saying that, if WotC still sold, say, 3e pdfs and the 3 3e core books, I'd be MORE likely to play 4e, not less. I imagine that's the case via 4e to 5e.

In essence...don't tick off your customers, and they might just come looking at your new shiny product with a bit more of an open mind.