Why do Halflings get damage bonuses?

So, in short: Go and play RuneQuest instead. Again, this is essentially an ad hominem and it fails to address my points. The abstract nature of D&D is clearly being compromised when they include rules like this - I'm arguing that they shouldn't.
It's not an ad hominem; it's a substantive response.

You know what's NOT a substantive response? You sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "NUH UH" for multiple pages of a thread.

You don't like the rule. You disagree with all the arguments that have been made in favor of it. You know the phrase "ad hominem." It's all duly noted, dude.
 

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Of course, I am just extrapolating from other forum comments here, so would be fine with being proved wrong . . . there are other things I don't care about in 5E, but the gamist damage dice fixes for non-human with weapons is not one of them.

This. Since it's easy to fix on a local basis by simply excluding halflings (or removing the offending increase in dice size), it's hard to see it as a major problem. I'm more worried about aspects of game design that can't easily be fixed this way.
 

It's not an ad hominem; it's a substantive response.

You know what's NOT a substantive response? You sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "NUH UH" for multiple pages of a thread.

You don't like the rule. You disagree with all the arguments that have been made in favor of it. You know the phrase "ad hominem." It's all duly noted, dude.
It is an ad hominem, just like this post you have made here is ad hominem. Ad hominem literally means 'to the man' and what these arguments are doing is singling myself out as an issue rather than addressing the actual issues raised. In your case it's just personalizing the discussion, regardless.
 

This. Since it's easy to fix on a local basis by simply excluding halflings (or removing the offending increase in dice size), it's hard to see it as a major problem. I'm more worried about aspects of game design that can't easily be fixed this way.

That's not a solution because I'm not asking for the removal of Halflings. I'm asking for the removal of a daft rule that is unnecessary and shouldn't be part of the game at all.
 

Home is sometimes the place for adventures, such as when Goblins attack. I would assume that most halflings are taught the arts of self defense in their own martial tradition, just like it was common for people of all medieval societies to learn self defense and fighting techniques. Just because we've largely forgotten our western martial arts traditions, doesn't mean they didn't exist.

Plus, you are acting like if I say "the late medieval swiss were effective on the battlefield through their mastery of infantry tactics using pikes and halberds, you are acting like I'm saying every 80 year old matronly goatherd was a master of the awl pike. Saying that the English were known for their skill with longbow, the swiss were known for their skill with the pike, the French for their heavy calvary, the Genoese for their crossbowmen etc. is no more or less absurd than saying that halflings are known for their skill with slings and daggers.
I don't have much faith that your account of history is an accurate one, let alone an unbiased one with regards to the aim of spuriously trying to assert an argument. Moreover, as stated before, none of this has much relevance to a fantasy race of Halflings.

Because an adventuring halfling wizard has training in halfling maritial arts related to daggers and slings.
And again, why would a wizard spend any time in his apprenticeship to specialise in weapon fighting, purely on racial grounds? You say that only adventuring Halflings would be trained, yet there is no rational means of selection of who would be an adventurer or not.

Those who fought were indeed the elite warrior class that often won battles. But everyone fought just like everyone prayed, even if they weren't professionals at it.
Again, your account of historical societies is spurious- conscripted peasants were not trained as a warrior caste.

Why not? How do you think peace is gained in a world like dungeons and dragons? By sprinkling posies around and asking pretty please don't trample my crops? Every race in the D&D universe has stats because every race fights.
Well considering both Tolkien's Hobbits and D&DNext Halflings are both explicitely stated as peaceful types who don't engage in warfare or conquest, and spend most of their time farming, eating, drinking mead and smoking weed - I think the implication of how they achieved 'peace' in their culture is pretty clear. It wasn't through a regime of martial training.

Whereas you're simply being obstinate in the face far greater opposition. That might be a clue that you're being unreasonable.
No it's just a clue that 'dog-piling' as an internet forum trait is alive and well, no matter what the point of debate is.

Listen, you want racial abilities to respresent nothing but biological things. Whether they have darkvision, how heavy they are etc. But a lot of us want cultural touches to racial abilities as well. Dwarves being able to detect stonework is not a biological thing, as presumably they are taught this. High Elves knowing spells regardless of their class, Wood Elves knowing how to get along in the woods, and so forth are all taught rather than innate. They are no more or less absurd than a halfling tradition of fighting with slings and daggers.
I'm saying we don't need the power creep of including these martial bonuses in the first place, in the same way we don't need +1 bonuses to all Ability scores for Humans. Not only are these bonuses illogical in a cultural sense, but they don't actually enhance the sense of culture in these species in any case. They are a 'gamist' bonus - not a roleplaying one.
 

I don't have much faith that your account of history is an accurate one, let alone an unbiased one with regards to the aim of spuriously trying to assert an argument. Moreover, as stated before, none of this has much relevance to a fantasy race of Halflings.

Using my knowledge of history to try to win the argument yes, but spurious no. Besides, you've already proven to everyone that you are not going to give and are just keeping going to save face, so I'm playing to the crowd rather than arguing with you per se.

As for doubting my knowledge of history, don't worry, history majors are usually gainsayed when they tell people something about the middle ages that contradicts what they learned when their favourite sitcom characters went back to ye olde medieval times. But if you don't want to do rigorous historical research then there is a wiki for that, which pretty much has everything I said in the paragraph you are dismissing. Infantry in the Middle Ages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the comparing the Swiss or the English to the halflings, why wouldn't it be applicable? The swiss are one culture, the halflings one culture. It isn't like fantasy races have the cultural variation of human cultures. One race, one culture, is the general rule, because otherwise they just seem like short humans.

And again, why would a wizard spend any time in his apprenticeship to specialise in weapon fighting, purely on racial grounds? You say that only adventuring Halflings would be trained, yet there is no rational means of selection of who would be an adventurer or not.

While wizards use magic a lot, they still need to be skilled with a dagger, staff, sling and other basic weapons when their magic is exhausted or fails (such as a magic dead zone).

As well, I don't see why you insist on saying that every halfling NPC, including 80 year old grandmothers has halfling weapon training. These are rules for PC's, who are adventurers. If you want to use D&D for playing a non-adventuring grandmother, then you are playing such an outlier that needs house rules. These rules are for adventuring halfling PC's. Nobody is rolling up non-adventurers, so that is your selector.

Again, your account of historical societies is spurious- conscripted peasants were not trained as a warrior caste.

Really? You are going to deny the existence of the medieval peasant militia? Where the hell do you think infantry came from? Do you think they came from sowing dragon's teeth? How many professional soldiers do you think a manor could support?

No, there were feudal obligations from peasants and free landowners alike for military service. Given that those obligations existed, and were often called upon, you don't think they trained and drilled for that eventuality? Seriously? How dumb do they think they are?

Well considering both Tolkien's Hobbits and D&DNext Halflings are both explicitely stated as peaceful types who don't engage in warfare or conquest, and spend most of their time farming, eating, drinking mead and smoking weed - I think the implication of how they achieved 'peace' in their culture is pretty clear. It wasn't through a regime of martial training.

Yep, it was because Bilbo's great uncle Bullroarer Took in the midst of a battle between hobbits and goblins, knocked the head off the goblin king in one blow with a warclub, winning the battle and inventing golf in same stroke.

No it's just a clue that 'dog-piling' as an internet forum trait is alive and well, no matter what the point of debate is.

Yes, maybe it is the case that you are the only logical and sane voice in a cacophony of madness. But I'm saying you should maybe consider, just consider mind you, that you are mistaken before saying that everyone's arguments are weak or spurious.

I'm saying we don't need the power creep of including these martial bonuses in the first place, in the same way we don't need +1 bonuses to all Ability scores for Humans. Not only are these bonuses illogical in a cultural sense, but they don't actually enhance the sense of culture in these species in any case. They are a 'gamist' bonus - not a roleplaying one.

There you go, you don't like it. That's what you want to say, and who can gainsay that? You don't mind if halflings, due to being limited to damage from small melee weapons, are worse at being fighters, rogues and clerics. If you want the halflings to have a different way of balancing it out, then you should brainstorm them and share it with the rest of us.

But claiming that the solution that exists is unrealistic or implausible against opposition that points out it is perfectly plausible (or at least as plausible as anything else in D&D rules) then perhaps you're just wasting time. In the end, I like the idea of halflings being good at knife fighting and slings, so I don't mind explaining it away with a halfling martial tradition involving slings and knives. You don't like the idea of halfling martial tradition because you want them to be helpless pacifists, so you don't like increased damage or the idea of a halfling martial tradition. But saying one is more or less realistic is where you start sounding silly.
 
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If I may be permitted a facetious response to the thread title: Has anyone considered that the average halfling is at eye level with the average human's groin? I'm just sayin'. :)

TrippyHippy, we get you don't like the rule. But there's no need to be dismissive of other people's points. My own knowledge of history (and of Tolkien) backs up Ferratus here. Even the peaceful hobbits gave Sharkey's gang quite a go of things.

And I don't quite think that 'ad hominem' means what you think it means. Ad hominem is a fallacy when it is used in place of substantive argument. For example, if someone says, "Your argument is invalid because you are a white male," or "a jerk," or "because you eat your boogers," or even "because you're just trying to win the argument," as you did to Ferratus, that's a fallacy.

But when someone says, "Based on your expressed preferences, D&D may not be the game you'd enjoy the most," that is not an ad hominem fallacy at all. They might still be wrong, mind you! But it's not fallacious reasoning. Reasoning can be completely sound, and yet still reach a wrong conclusion - because it depends on the truth of one's premises.
 

Halflings can very well have astonishing aim as a racial trait and that this translates into more damage. If a human can hit the head of an orc with a sword swing or arrow, a halfling might be able to hit the orc's snout or either eye, called out eight ball-style before the shot.

–Right ear! Dzrrsnikkt.
 


And I don't quite think that 'ad hominem' means what you think it means. Ad hominem is a fallacy when it is used in place of substantive argument. For example, if someone says, "Your argument is invalid because you are a white male," or "a jerk," or "because you eat your boogers," or even "because you're just trying to win the argument," as you did to Ferratus, that's a fallacy.

But when someone says, "Based on your expressed preferences, D&D may not be the game you'd enjoy the most," that is not an ad hominem fallacy at all. They might still be wrong, mind you! But it's not fallacious reasoning. Reasoning can be completely sound, and yet still reach a wrong conclusion - because it depends on the truth of one's premises.

An 'ad hominem' is an attempt to undermine or discredit the person making the argument, as opposed to addressing the issues raised in the argument itself. That is what I learned when studying philosphy at University, by the way, and that is precisely what some posters have tried to do in this thread.
 

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