D&D 5E You can't necessarily go back

[Ahnehnois]

If you have "NPC classes," PCs and NPCs being different is already hardcoded into the rules.

-O

The books pretty clearly describe them as being usable by players, and obviously NPCs can use the classes in the PHB. In practice, the term "NPC classes" is a misnomer. "Nonadventuring classes" would be better.

Then again, it is an unfortunate distinction, and the nonadventuring classes should be deeper, more powerful, and more diverse.

 

[Obryn]

The books pretty clearly describe them as being usable by players, and obviously NPCs can use the classes in the PHB. In practice, the term "NPC classes" is a misnomer. "Nonadventuring classes" would be better.

Then again, it is an unfortunate distinction, and the nonadventuring classes should be deeper, more powerful, and more diverse.

Everything "Commoner" does, "Expert" does better. Everything "Warrior" does, "Fighter" does better. The actual rules of the game indicate no prerequisites for these classes. And yet, your average city guard is a Warrior. Your average farmer is a Commoner.

Why isn't every Warrior in the game a Fighter? Because the PCs operate under different rules than the NPCs and got to pick their class, rather than being stuck with a poor joke. Ergo, the differences between PCs and NPCs are hardcoded into the 3.x rules.

-O

 

[Ahnehnois]

Why isn't every Warrior in the game a Fighter?

The books themselves do not give a reason. However, it is fair to assume that the PC classes are not easy to enter, and that being a fighter requires certain circumstances not available to a country bumpkin. Or that some people choose not to become fighters because doing so entails additional difficulty or risk.

What they don't say is that all NPCs must be warriors because NPCs are inferior to PCs.

Because the PCs operate under different rules than the NPCs and got to pick their class, rather than being stuck with a poor joke. Ergo, the differences between PCs and NPCs are hardcoded into the 3.x rules.

The DM also got to pick the NPC's class. Nothing stopped him from making the character a fighter; he chose warrior because he felt it represented the character's amateur status. Again, the rules aren't forcing a difference between PC's and NPCs, they've simply given the DM a tool to differentiate between more skilled and less skilled characters (of the player or nonplayer variety).

 

[Obryn]

The books themselves do not give a reason. However, it is fair to assume that the PC classes are not easy to enter, and that being a fighter requires certain circumstances not available to a country bumpkin. Or that some people choose not to become fighters because doing so entails additional difficulty or risk.

If you make this assumption, it naturally follows that the PCs are better/different than NPCs because you are not requiring any PC to enter an NPC class or saying they fail to qualify for a PC class for vague and shadowy reasons.

What they don't say is that all NPCs must be warriors because NPCs are inferior to PCs.

The DM also got to pick the NPC's class. Nothing stopped him from making the character a fighter; he chose warrior because he felt it represented the character's amateur status. Again, the rules aren't forcing a difference between PC's and NPCs, they've simply given the DM a tool to differentiate between more skilled and less skilled characters (of the player or nonplayer variety).

I'm not disputing that it's a tool to support certain playstyles. That's precisely what it is: it's a way to categorize and assign statistics to everything in the game world, as 3.x makes it its mission to do. The thing is, that's all it is - a tool in the DM's toolbox, which makes a separation between what PCs and NPCs are capable of.

-O

 

[Ahnehnois]

If you make this assumption, it naturally follows that the PCs are better/different than NPCs because you are not requiring any PC to enter an NPC class or saying they fail to qualify for a PC class for vague and shadowy reasons.

You could. DM's do. Again, it's a choice by the people at the table, not something that is decided at WotC HQ.

 

[Obryn]

You could. DM's do. Again, it's a choice by the people at the table, not something that is decided at WotC HQ.

Some do, indeed, insist that their players use classes from the Dungeon Master's Guide instead of the better classes from the Players' Handbook. I'm not addressing house-rules, though. And certainly the book location of each of those classes implies something about a standard play-style, no?

So it looks like we are agreed that allowing PCs free choice of PC classes, and simultaneously making most NPCs in a setting Commoners, Experts, and Warriors implies a difference between PCs and NPCs?

-O

 

[Ahnehnois]

So it looks like we are agreed that allowing PCs free choice of PC classes, and simultaneously making most NPCs in a setting Commoners, Experts, and Warriors implies a difference between PCs and NPCs?

No. It enables one.

 

[Obryn]

No. It enables one.

If you're not going to acknowledge that one set of classes being in the Players' Handbook and another set of classes being in the Dungeon Master's Guide encourages and implies a certain playstyle, I don't think we can go any further here.

-O

 

[Ahnehnois]

If you're not going to acknowledge that one set of classes being in the Players' Handbook and another set of classes being in the Dungeon Master's Guide encourages and implies a certain playstyle, I don't think we can go any further here.

Prestige classes are also in the DMG, as are magic items (i.e. things implicitly for PCs).

In any case, it does encourage and imply a certain playstyle, it just doesn't force it.

 

[Obryn]

Prestige classes are also in the DMG, as are magic items (i.e. things implicitly for PCs).

In any case, it does encourage and imply a certain playstyle, it just doesn't force it.

...and both access to prestige classes and magic items are expected to be the DM's purview. Unlike, say, the ability to use PC classes.

And yes. It doesn't force it because you can always houserule the game. But again, I don't think that houserules are relevant here.

-O