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D&D 5E You can't necessarily go back

...and both access to prestige classes and magic items are expected to be the DM's purview. Unlike, say, the ability to use PC classes. :)

And yes. It doesn't force it because you can always houserule the game. But again, I don't think that houserules are relevant here.

-O

"Houserule" tends to be used in the wrong way around here.
 

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And yes. It doesn't force it because you can always houserule the game. But again, I don't think that houserules are relevant here.
An NPC taking a PC class level is not a houserule, nor is the reverse. You're right about houserules being irrelevant at least.

Ninja'd.
 

An NPC taking a PC class level is not a houserule, nor is the reverse. You're right about houserules being irrelevant at least.

Ninja'd.
No, and that's not my argument.

There are Warriors. There are Fighters. Fighter is absolutely superior to Warrior in every way. And yet there are many more NPC Warriors than Fighters for no reason covered in the rules. Likewise, Expert is absolutely superior to Commoner in every way. And yet there are many more NPC Commoners for no reason covered in the rules.

Forcing the issue - by making PCs use NPC classes rather than the classes in the Player's Handbook, and thus making PCs and NPCs actually follow the same rules - is a houserule.

-O
 

No, and that's not my argument.

There are Warriors. There are Fighters. Fighter is absolutely superior to Warrior in every way. And yet there are many more NPC Warriors than Fighters for no reason covered in the rules. Likewise, Expert is absolutely superior to Commoner in every way. And yet there are many more NPC Commoners for no reason covered in the rules.

Forcing the issue - by making PCs use NPC classes rather than the classes in the Player's Handbook, and thus making PCs and NPCs actually follow the same rules - is a houserule.

-O

Incorrect.

You still aren't using the "houserule" term correctly.

Ignoring, or changing a set rule is what is commonly known as a houserule.

Using PC or NPC classes in your game is not a houserule. That would be like you telling me I'm houseruling because "Holy Avengers' don't exist in my games.
 

There are Warriors. There are Fighters. Fighter is absolutely superior to Warrior in every way. And yet there are many more NPC Warriors than Fighters for no reason covered in the rules. Likewise, Expert is absolutely superior to Commoner in every way. And yet there are many more NPC Commoners for no reason covered in the rules.
The rules are silent about why character 1 is a fighter and character 2 is a warrior. Thus, deciding who can take those classes cannot be a houserule because there is no rule to change.

Forcing the issue - by making PCs use NPC classes rather than the classes in the Player's Handbook, and thus making PCs and NPCs actually follow the same rules - is a houserule.
Who's forcing anything? The classes are right there in the book. It says you can use them for players. Using them isn't forcing anything.

Again, the distinction between fighter and warrior is an in-game one (a fighter is more highly trained than a warrior) rather than a metagame one (a a fighter is controlled by a player and a warrior is controlled by the DM).
 

Incorrect.

You still aren't using the "houserule" term correctly.

Ignoring, or changing a set rule is what is commonly known as a houserule.

Using PC or NPC classes in your game is not a houserule. That would be like you telling me I'm houseruling because "Holy Avengers' don't exist in my games.
If you consider "Ignore the entire PHB full of classes and only use the ones in the DMG" to be equivalent to, "A magic doodad doesn't exist in my game" then I think you're the one using the term incorrectly. :)

The rules are silent about why character 1 is a fighter and character 2 is a warrior. Thus, deciding who can take those classes cannot be a houserule because there is no rule to change.

Who's forcing anything? The classes are right there in the book. It says you can use them for players. Using them isn't forcing anything.

Again, the distinction between fighter and warrior is an in-game one (a fighter is more highly trained than a warrior) rather than a metagame one (a a fighter is controlled by a player and a warrior is controlled by the DM).
And - like I said - this means that the PCs are a cut above the NPCs. I'm not disagreeing that Fighters are better-trained than Warriors in the setting; I'm taking it as a given. (The Heroic vs. Standard array, should you use them, likewise confirms the separation, much like 4d6 rolling and class levels in AD&D.) This is not a bizarre twisting of how 3.x is played or some sort of edge-case. The entire system assumes PCs are predominantly using PC classes.

-O
 

And - like I said - this means that the PCs are a cut above the NPCs.
No. It doesn't. It means that members of adventuring classes are a cut above nonadventuring classes, and you've used the misleading and inaccurate terminology of "NPC classes" (which in fact can be taken by anyone) to distort the concept into something that it isn't.

The entire system assumes PCs are predominantly using PC classes.
Assumes, yes. Dictates, no. Seriously, I think you've made an ass out of u and me.
 

No. It doesn't. It means that members of adventuring classes are a cut above nonadventuring classes, and you've used the misleading and inaccurate terminology of "NPC classes" (which in fact can be taken by anyone) to distort the concept into something that it isn't.

Assumes, yes. Dictates, no. Seriously, I think you've made an ass out of u and me.
They're called NPC classes in the DMG and SRD. Why do you think they are called that? And why would the DMG say, "None of them, with the possible exceptions of the expert and aristocrat, stands up as a playable class for PCs?" You can call them "Bad Classes" if it would help, but the point stands. The DMG even notes that PCs are "elite" as opposed to average; it's actual game terminology which gives you better than 3d6 ability scores and automatic max HP at 1st level.

-O
 

If you consider "Ignore the entire PHB full of classes and only use the ones in the DMG" to be equivalent to, "A magic doodad doesn't exist in my game" then I think you're the one using the term incorrectly. :)


And - like I said - this means that the PCs are a cut above the NPCs. I'm not disagreeing that Fighters are better-trained than Warriors in the setting; I'm taking it as a given. (The Heroic vs. Standard array, should you use them, likewise confirms the separation, much like 4d6 rolling and class levels in AD&D.) This is not a bizarre twisting of how 3.x is played or some sort of edge-case. The entire system assumes PCs are predominantly using PC classes.

-O

I know when and where to use the term. You keep using it when it isn't appropriate. The example using the magic item is spot on because even though the item is in the DMG, you don't have to use it and the same goes with the PC or NPC classes.

I had a friend who always loved to play an Adept who he flavored as a Witch. Now this isn't a houserule because it doesn't go against any rule that's written.

NPC and PC classes are usable by everyone and it even says in the DMG that NPC and PC classes multi class with each other.
 

They're called NPC classes in the DMG and SRD. Why do you think they are called that? And why would the DMG say, "None of them, with the possible exceptions of the expert and aristocrat, stands up as a playable class for PCs?" You can call them "Bad Classes" if it would help, but the point stands. The DMG even notes that PCs are "elite" as opposed to average; it's actual game terminology which gives you better than 3d6 ability scores and automatic max HP at 1st level.

-O

They apparently thought some of the NPC classes weren't good enough for PC's to play but I know plenty of people that have proven them wrong. The Adept is an example of this. Also, there still isn't a rule that says a player can't use these classes therefore it doesn't qualify as a houserule if you use it.

NPC's can be anything you want them to be. I know several example NPC's that are expert 1/rogue 3 etc....

Does the book consider NPC classes inferior to PC classes? Yes it does but that's subjective and has been proven to not always be the case.
 

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