D&D 5E Traditional or Historial Arms and Armor

[Hussar]

By the same token, it's probably better to be in full plate when hit by a car than in regular clothes. After all, bullets hit pretty darn hard, and a good suit of armor, while it might not completely stop bullets, is more effective than nothing.

As far as leather being leather is concerned, that's too simplistic. That's like saying the side of a horse is the same as the side of a rhino. After all, it's all just skin right? Never minding some of the weirder monsters. Just what is the armor equivalent of a gelatinous cube? Or a Will-o-the-Wisp?

In 3e, a ghoul has 2 points of natural armor, but a wight has 4. Why? What is the armor equivalent there?

This is a huge rabbit hole that I would never want to see in core rules.

 

[Steely_Dan]

By the same token, it's probably better to be in full plate when hit by a car than in regular clothes.

I'm not sure, all that extra metal attached to you could cause more damage.

But, yeah, AC is AC, let's not try and get in too deep.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

I think both camps can be made reasonably happy fairly easily.

While I love good, old-fashioned D&D traditions, I come down ever-so-slightly on the side of preferring historical armors.

I propose the following changes to the fluff of the present armor table:

Armor: Price: AC:

Light Armor:
Boiled/Studded Leather 10sp 11+Dex
Brigandine 500sp 12+Dex
Mithril Mailshirt 5,000sp 13+Dex

Medium Armor:
Mailshirt 25sp 13+Dex(max 2)
Breastplate 500sp 14+Dex(max 2)
Dragonscale 5,000sp 15+Dex(max 2)

Heavy Armor:
Ringmail 30sp 14
(chain)Mail 75sp 16
Splint/Banded/Scale 500sp 17
Plate 5,000sp 18


None of the mechanics are changed. However, I got rid of that displacer beast hide silliness, and brought back a couple of armor types that are both historical and have a history with older editions of the game: the brigandine, (non-mithril) mailshirt, and the breastplate. Roll studded leather into "regular" (boiled) leather armour (hey, they're both techniques that supposedly augment the protective qualities of leather, right?), and--in a nod to 4th edition--combine scale with splint/banded (both of which I interpret as referring to different types of 14th century-style Wisby coats of plates).

As for the pricing, I can accept that the construction of a brigandine is a sufficiently intricate operation to warrant a pricetag in line with some heavy armor types without resorting to explaining the high price with magic or rarity, as was the case with displacer beast hide.

The heavy scale armor, I imagine as a long coat of fairly large scales worn with a helmet. The brigandine I envision as one of those later 16th century styles, with hundreds of tiny plates and rivets, perhaps with a fancy velvet cover and gilt rivet-heads to help justify that price. The mailshirt needs no explanation, but I think it can be safely included in medium armor while its rich mithril cousin can be counted as light. The breastplate can be pictured either as classical "spartan" hoplite armour or as pop-culture "conquistador" style armor; in either case, it's a cuirass (and maybe a skirt), a helmet, and greaves, which image is a staple of fantasy fiction.

I confess that I have no explanation for why (chain)mail, whose construction is also fairly intricate, should be so cheap in this iteration of the D&D universe--maybe wire-drawing technology somehow evolved in advance of sheet-metal manufacturing techniques.

Anyway, I'd rather see an armor selection like the above instead of what was released. Yeah, I know that renaming items just amounts to a flavor change, but it would be nice to see an official sanction of this.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I think both camps can be made reasonably happy fairly easily.

While I love good, old-fashioned D&D traditions, I come down ever-so-slightly on the side of preferring historical armors.

I propose the following changes to the fluff of the present armor table:

Armor: Price: AC:

Light Armor:
Boiled/Studded Leather 10sp 11+Dex
Brigandine 500sp 12+Dex
Mithril Mailshirt 5,000sp 13+Dex

Medium Armor:
Mailshirt 25sp 13+Dex(max 2)
Breastplate 500sp 14+Dex(max 2)
Dragonscale 5,000sp 15+Dex(max 2)

Heavy Armor:
Ringmail 30sp 14
(chain)Mail 75sp 16
Splint/Banded/Scale 500sp 17
Plate 5,000sp 18


None of the mechanics are changed. However, I got rid of that displacer beast hide silliness, and brought back a couple of armor types that are both historical and have a history with older editions of the game: the brigandine, (non-mithril) mailshirt, and the breastplate. Roll studded leather into "regular" (boiled) leather armour (hey, they're both techniques that supposedly augment the protective qualities of leather, right?), and--in a nod to 4th edition--combine scale with splint/banded (both of which I interpret as referring to different types of 14th century-style Wisby coats of plates).

As for the pricing, I can accept that the construction of a brigandine is a sufficiently intricate operation to warrant a pricetag in line with some heavy armor types without resorting to explaining the high price with magic or rarity, as was the case with displacer beast hide.

The heavy scale armor, I imagine as a long coat of fairly large scales worn with a helmet. The brigandine I envision as one of those later 16th century styles, with hundreds of tiny plates and rivets, perhaps with a fancy velvet cover and gilt rivet-heads to help justify that price. The mailshirt needs no explanation, but I think it can be safely included in medium armor while its rich mithril cousin can be counted as light. The breastplate can be pictured either as classical "spartan" hoplite armour or as pop-culture "conquistador" style armor; in either case, it's a cuirass (and maybe a skirt), a helmet, and greaves, which image is a staple of fantasy fiction.

I confess that I have no explanation for why (chain)mail, whose construction is also fairly intricate, should be so cheap in this iteration of the D&D universe--maybe wire-drawing technology somehow evolved in advance of sheet-metal manufacturing techniques.

Anyway, I'd rather see an armor selection like the above instead of what was released. Yeah, I know that renaming items just amounts to a flavor change, but it would be nice to see an official sanction of this.

You might be better moving Brigandine to medium armor at the low end. The reason for using metal plates riveted between to layers of leather is that is was far, far cheaper to make and repair than mail or plate armor, while still providing significant protection. So, make it the cheap medium armor and increase the effectiveness and cost of mail to better reflect the time and difficulty of its manufacture.

But, other than that, your list well reflects the kind of changes I'd like to see to the core.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

You might be better moving Brigandine to medium armor at the low end. The reason for using metal plates riveted between to layers of leather is that is was far, far cheaper to make and repair than mail or plate armor, while still providing significant protection. So, make it the cheap medium armor and increase the effectiveness and cost of mail to better reflect the time and difficulty of its manufacture.

But, other than that, your list well reflects the kind of changes I'd like to see to the core.

I'm totally fine with that, but then what would go in the 500gp light armor slot?

 

[Wyckedemus]

Armor Ideas

I think that there should be general armor categories, and the *Descriptions" of those categories contain the variety of armors that fit into those categories. The following suggested table gives purpose to the various armor types beyond cost.

Light Armor AC Max Dex Cost
Leather 11 +5 10gp
Brigandine 12 +4 25gp
Chain Shirt 13 +3 40gp

Medium Armor
(-1 to Str and Dex checks)
Hide Armor 14 +3 30gp
Chain Mail 15 +2 75gp
Scale Mail 16 +1 90gp

Heavy Armor
(-1 to Str and Dex checks, Cannot move while being Stealthy, -5 speed)
Banded Armor 17 +2 100gp
Plate Armor 18 +1 250gp
Full Plate Armor 19 +0 500gp

Leather: include the variety of light, non-metallic armors. Examples: leather armor, padded armors, light hides, paper armors.

Brigandine: include light armors with small metal studs, plates, or rings sewn in. Examples: Brigandine armor, studded leather, ring mail.

Chain Shirt: include a variety of light chain armors. Example: lorica hamata

Hide Armor: include heavier leathers, hides, woods, and other usually non-metallic armors.

Scale Mail: include a variety of armors containing smaller scale-like metal plates layered for greater protection than brigandines. Examples: lorica squamata, lamellar, scale armor, and fuller, more robust brigandine suits.

Banded Armor: includes armors with larger metal strips applied to higher quality leather and chain bases. These large metal strips are segmented or layered for better mobility. Banded mail, splint mail, and lorica segmentata fit in this category.

Plate Armor: you get the gist.

Full Plate Armor: OMG. MOAR METAL!

Then there are the Special materials that can be used to make masterwork armor. Here are a couple options for both metal and organic armors.

Mithral and Displacer Beast hide: Increase Max Dex by 1.
Adamantine and Dragonhide: DR 1d6 per hit.

Add 5,000gp for a special material.

What do you think?

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I'm totally fine with that, but then what would go in the 500gp light armor slot?

It would probably be a form of mastercraft leather and hide armor with a few selective pieces of metal riveted in. I'd have to look into it.

 

[Izumi]

Historic, of course. It's our baseline for the fantastic. I'd do something like this:

Padded Cloth 11 + Dex (+4 Max) -1 to hp total when worn.
Leather Armor 12 + Dex (+3 Max) -2 to hp total when worn.
Brigandine/Ring Armor 13 + Dex (+2 Max) -3 to hp total when worn.
Scale/Lamellar Armor 14 + Dex (+1 Max) -4 to hp total when worn.
Maile 15 (No Dex) -4 to hp total when worn.
Plated Maile/Laminar Armor 16 (No Dex) -5 hp total when worn.
Plate Armor 17 (No Dex) -5 to hp total when worn.
Small Shield +1 AC, -1 to hp total when worn.
Medium Shield +2 AC, -1 Dex bonus, -3 to hp total when worn.
Large Shield +3 AC, -2 Dex bonus, -5 to hp total when worn.

Combintation Armors could be made by adding the AC of each type together and dividing by total number of types. Round up and down as necessary, of course.

Okegawa dou gusoku (A common Footman/Retainer armor of late Sengoku)
Cloth 11 + Brigandine 13 + Plated Maile 16 + Plate Armor 17 = 57/4 = 14 AC (+1 Max Dex) -4 hp when worn.

Costs in silver/gold for each armor should also reflect history as much as possible.

I'd just give magical armors an increase in AC/Max dex bonus allowed and decrease in hp cost as I considered appropriate. Obviously, silver/gold costs for such rare artifacts would be immense.

Mithril Maile 16 + Dex (Max +1) -2 to hp total when worn.

 

[Hussar]

Izumi, why am I losing hp for wearing heavier armors? Or am I misreading something?

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Izumi, why am I losing hp for wearing heavier armors? Or am I misreading something?

I think he's giving armor damage reduction, which has long been advocated by people who want more believable armor. My only criticism of that list is that the damage reduction doesn't scale with character level like damage and hit points do.