D&D 5E "Damage on a miss" poll.

[herrozerro]

The core game should be a light buffet style meal with just enough options for everyone. It's not that difficult at all. A few extra pages of Ink is all that's needed. Now, I do understand that some people can't eat at the same table with heathens...but that might be going too far.

How is this not a light buffet already? If someone doesn't like GWF, they ignore it. This isn't some kind of entrenched mechanic that has permeated the core game. It's an optional mechanic that can be ignored.

 

[dmgorgon]

Narrative is the right word. It is offending the simulationists as it should. I believe that WOTC has abandoned the simulationists. The only reason we don't see more narrative stuff is that they have a checklist of things people hated from 4e. They still don't understand though why they hated those things and are likely doomed to make the same mistakes when introducing future mechanics.

I am tired of the constant arguing I admit. I have concluded though that WOTC has no one representing me on the dev staff. They are trying to accommodate everyone but they have no one that thinks the same way. If they had even one guy on the staff that way, I'd have hope. They just shoot in the dark and treat every single element as an individual thing with no relationship to any other element. Thus by sheer attrition they will get their narrative game elements. The result will likely be the same as 4e. They will likely have more people that actually like it but the initial burst of people that got fooled isn't going to be there like it was in 4e.

I've had this concern for a long time now and I'm almost finished with WotC. They created all these divisions and now they are trying to fix them, albeit half halfheartedly IMO.

You only have to look at the resumes of the dev team to know what kind of game we are going to get. I could be wrong, but all the designers who had a part in 2e like Steve Winter and Zeb are gone. At this point, the playtest is largely a marketing ploy and an attempt to keep the forums buzzing with strife.

 

[dmgorgon]

How is this not a light buffet already? If someone doesn't like GWF, they ignore it. This isn't some kind of entrenched mechanic that has permeated the core game. It's an optional mechanic that can be ignored.

GWF isn't a single dish that people can just ignore. All playstyles want GWF in their game. The problem is that some people can't eat the non-halal beef. Telling them to eat the fish and pretend it's halal beef isn't going to work.

 

[herrozerro]

GWF isn't a single dish that people can just ignore. All playstyles want GWF in their game. The problem is that some people can't eat the non-halal beef. Telling them to eat the fish and pretend it's halal beef isn't going to work.

It is something that can be ignored though. you just need to wait until a module comes out to give you what you want. The concept isn't too hard to grasp. We either include multiple options for every element, or we just have a few options and more will come later.

 

[dmgorgon]

It is something that can be ignored though. you just need to wait until a module comes out to give you what you want. The concept isn't too hard to grasp. We either include multiple options for every element, or we just have a few options and more will come later.

At this point with the level of contention on the forums I think it should be an option included in the PHB or DMG. Sure we can wait for a module, but it would be nice if the devs put this issue to rest one way or another.

 

[urLordy]

Thought experiment:
1) GWF by default is DoaM, with optional rule or house rule to replace with +2 to damage
2) GWF by default is +2 to damage, with optional or house rule to replace with DoaM

For George, DoaM is fun and engaging, +2 damage is dull and boring
For Jason, DoaM is unbelievable or uncompelling, +2 damage as more cohesive

In his game, George gets what he wants with #1 by default OR #2 with optional or houserule rule.
In his game, Jason gets what he wants with #2 by default OR #1 with optional or houserule rule.
So both get what they want regardless.

Yet despite both getting what they want, George and Jason argue forever about #1 vs #2.

But theoretically, in many contexts, #1 and #2 yield the same results!

So to settle this rationally, George and Jason could stop arguing and just flip a coin. Heads = #1. Tails = #2

However, George and Jason will not flip a coin to settle that. Instead, they will argue that #1 precedes #2 over vice versa.

In the effort to stop this thread from closing prematurely, what is each side maintaining? That #1 and #2 are exactly equivalent? If so, put our money where our mouth is, and just a flip a coin and settle it. Or perhaps, as I believe, the real argument lies in staking a claim on the core game? In which case, several pages of suggesting #1 over #2 or #2 over #1 is merely peripheral. If so, let's be genuine about what we want/expect, and discuss the real contention at the heart of the matter, no?

 

[ThirdWizard]

with the level of contention on the forums

I haven't heard a peep of this "issue" outside ENWorld which itself is a pretty strong echo-chamber. I haven't seen anything about this on, for example, Reddit, the WotC forums, Google+, or rpg.net. No one in my group, who keep up with Next, has mentioned it. So, really, it isn't an issue at all outside of ENWorld. And even in this poll, its split half and half, where self selection is going to draw in people who are unhappy with the rule.

 

[billd91]

It is something that can be ignored though. you just need to wait until a module comes out to give you what you want. The concept isn't too hard to grasp. We either include multiple options for every element, or we just have a few options and more will come later.

It might be something that can be ignored. Right now, it's hard to say how common that sort of damage on a miss will be in Next's final form. Given parallels I can see between Next and 13th Age and the degree to which 13th Age has incorporated damage on a miss attacks for martial characters, I'm a bit concerned that those parallels will run deeper than I would like. Too frequent a mechanic and I will have a hard time ignoring it.

Plus, it's the only fighting style specifically for two-handed or versatile weapons and the only one available to characters with those weapons that is oriented on the offense rather than defense. I presume there will be more options in the game at some point, but one hopes that's not the only one out of the box given the distaste a lot of people have for that style of mechanic.

 

[dmgorgon]

I haven't heard a peep of this "issue" outside ENWorld which itself is a pretty strong echo-chamber. I haven't seen anything about this on, for example, Reddit, the WotC forums, Google+, or rpg.net. No one in my group, who keep up with Next, has mentioned it. So, really, it isn't an issue at all outside of ENWorld. And even in this poll, its split half and half, where self selection is going to draw in people who are unhappy with the rule.

I'm not sure if you have been paying attention to the WotC forums then.

 

[ThirdWizard]

You haven't been paying attention to WotC forums then.

Any time it's brought up on the Wizard forums, it seems like many more people are for it than against it. However, I'm willing to admit I don't frequent those boards nearly as much as I do reddit and ENWorld.