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D&D 5E So, 5e OGL

Nellisir

Hero
If D&D doesn't allow third party publishing, it forces the 3rd party publishers to compete with D&D, using the Pathfinder system. Or whatever, but mainly Pathfinder. They have the choice of recruiting a mass of competitive allies, or throwing all that capital and creativity onto Paizo's side of the scale. It's an existential decision. Not this year certainly, but as early as next year I think the absence or presence of third party publishers will begin determining the ultimate survival of D&D in the face of Pathfinder.

I think you're on base with the comment (not quoted here) that "the rest of the WotC business model has yet to roll out". The first products we know of are clearly (to me) being done on a freelance studio basis. I expect that this will probably continue to some degree. However, it also frees up manpower at WotC. WotC and TSR are no strangers to freelancing, but insofar as I know, it's primarily done on an individual basis, and at some point gets brought in-house for editing. Hire a studio, and you get editors as well. It still need an official overview, but less official resources overall.

I doubt WotC's plan is to keep two people on to read the freelancers' work and rubberstamp it. The references in the PHB to WotC settings strongly suggest that those mentioned will not be licensed out; they might be done in house, or they might be hired out to a studio to develop a few books, but it won't be a license deal. WotC will capitalize on those properties, however.

WotC isn't going to suddenly put everything under the OGL, either. Will there be a public license? Almost certainly. I expect some kind of OGL/GSL hybrid, but we'll see. I'd bet that this isn't a settled issue at WotC, either - more likely it's temporarily tabled as different sides see how the public & 3PP react to an unlicensed D&D, and they'll come back to it at the end of the year. I fully expect restrictions on content; I've posted a number of ideas about this before, but put bluntly, a replacement Players Handbook isn't going to be easy. WotC wants 3PP to support the smaller parts of the game, not replace it wholesale. More races, classes, add-on rule sets, that stuff will be good.
 

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TheSethGrey

First Post
Hopefully this doesn't count as a Necro, but I have a question for the seemingly wise and knowledge people within this thread. If I were to write an adventure, a murder mystery, and within this adventure I made references to players needing to make investigation checks or medicine checks would that violate copyright? Additionally if I made references to the free D&D rules online, I.E. telling the reader they can find stats for the monsters used in the adventure there, would that be violating copyright? I want to thank anyone who responds in advance, as I am not confident in my abilities to understand how the copyright laws work in regards to writing such as this.
 

HardcoreDandDGirl

First Post
Hopefully this doesn't count as a Necro, but I have a question for the seemingly wise and knowledge people within this thread. If I were to write an adventure, a murder mystery, and within this adventure I made references to players needing to make investigation checks or medicine checks would that violate copyright?
If you made a murder mystery and just put those words (Investigation check) then that violates nothing.


Additionally if I made references to the free D&D rules online, I.E. telling the reader they can find stats for the monsters used in the adventure there, would that be violating copyright?
If you want to refrence anything I would not take advice from a board at all... talk to a lawyer.

However general rule of thumb... if you want to sell it... get permission.
 

Hopefully this doesn't count as a Necro, but I have a question for the seemingly wise and knowledge people within this thread. If I were to write an adventure, a murder mystery, and within this adventure I made references to players needing to make investigation checks or medicine checks would that violate copyright? Additionally if I made references to the free D&D rules online, I.E. telling the reader they can find stats for the monsters used in the adventure there, would that be violating copyright? I want to thank anyone who responds in advance, as I am not confident in my abilities to understand how the copyright laws work in regards to writing such as this.
The tricky bit isn't copyright but trademarks.
Mentioning "Dungeon & Dragons" for one. Posting monsters with the same format as the official ones.
Making adventures look like the official ones.
 

Nellisir

Hero
If you made a murder mystery and just put those words (Investigation check) then that violates nothing.

If you want to refrence anything I would not take advice from a board at all... talk to a lawyer.
Ayup. Making a "check" is just about as generic as you can get; I wouldn't sweat it. Directing people to a website or product owned by someone else, however, is a whole different ball of wax. I wouldn't do it without permission, but that's not "legal" advice. Consult a lawyer.

However general rule of thumb... if you want to sell it... get permission.
I was going to take issue with this statement on a "it doesn't matter if you're selling or not" soapbox, but I realized I basically misunderstood it and...yeah. It's in the long-distant past now, but fan work is a lot more accepted nowadays than it used to be (ie the late 1990's). WotC is pretty cool about fan stuff; if you want to write up a murder mystery and put a link in it to the Basic Rules and give it away as fan work, I think that'd be OK. It does cross a line when you start selling it or representing it as some kind of commercial venture (ie, here's a freeby, buy the sequel here).
 

Maggan

Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
WotC isn't going to suddenly put everything under the OGL, either. Will there be a public license? Almost certainly.

I've started thinking that they might place the Basic Game under OGL, and leave it at that. They already distribute it for free in digital form, so maybe limiting a license to cover the basic game is an idea for WotC.

/Magnus
 

Dausuul

Legend
Hopefully this doesn't count as a Necro, but I have a question for the seemingly wise and knowledge people within this thread. If I were to write an adventure, a murder mystery, and within this adventure I made references to players needing to make investigation checks or medicine checks would that violate copyright? Additionally if I made references to the free D&D rules online, I.E. telling the reader they can find stats for the monsters used in the adventure there, would that be violating copyright? I want to thank anyone who responds in advance, as I am not confident in my abilities to understand how the copyright laws work in regards to writing such as this.
First of all: I am not a lawyer. If you're concerned, consult a lawyer before proceeding. Do not rely on legal advice from an Internet forum. Now, that said, here's my take on the subject:

The question is not so much "Will it violate copyright?" as "Will it provoke legal action from WotC?"

My understanding is that what you're describing is perfectly legal; it's what KenzerCo did with "Kingdoms of Kalamar" in 4E. They put "For use with 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons" right on the cover and Wizards didn't say boo. However, the problem with U.S. copyright law is that you have to pay for your own legal representation regardless of the outcome of the suit. That gives a big company the ability to muscle out most independent publishers even when the independent publisher is legally in the right--you may win the suit, but you'll go broke paying your lawyers, so you might as well save yourself a lot of pain and comply with WotC's demands. KenzerCo has an enormous advantage here, because Dave Kenzer, the president, just happens to be a lawyer specializing in intellectual property law. He can go toe to toe with WotC in the courtroom, and Wizards knows that. Furthermore, if Kenzer and Wizards do slug it out in court and Kenzer wins, he'll establish a precedent that will make it a lot easier for other publishers to follow his lead. So WotC won't mess with KenzerCo unless they think they can win on the merits.

(And on the other hand, Kenzer also knows the ins and outs of the law well enough to avoid the dangers. Copyright isn't the only thing you have to worry about; there's also trademark protection to consider. You can refer to "Dungeons and Dragons" in your adventure--that's called "nominative use" of someone else's trademark, and it's legal--but you have to be very, very careful how you do it. If a buyer could be confused into thinking your adventure was an official D&D publication, you may be infringing WotC's trademark. Likewise, if the formatting looks too WotC-like, you may be infringing their trade dress. And unlike copyright, the owner of a trademark must actively defend that trademark or risk losing it. You could inadvertently put Wizards in a position where they have to sue you.)

So, what it boils down to is that unless you are a) rich, b) a copyright lawyer, or c) so clearly in the right that you can count on a judge dismissing the case, Wizards can probably shut you down if they want to. The question is, do they want to? If you're putting it out there as fan work and not getting money for it, and not infringing any trademarks, it's highly unlikely. Filing lawsuits against your customers makes for terrible PR, especially when your business model depends on a small, loyal, highly engaged customer base. If you're selling it for profit, they'll be looking at you more closely. That doesn't mean they'll come after you, though. It's reading tea leaves at this point. (For all the sturm und drang around the GSL, I don't recall them suing anybody during the 4E era, and there was some third-party material published.)

At some point in the not too distant future, Mike Mearls has promised us a "program" that covers fan work and possibly third-party publishers. What that means is anyone's guess, but it will probably clarify a lot of these issues. I recommend waiting to see what we get. It may well be that your proposed adventure will be covered by a safe harbor arrangement much like the OGL, in which case you can proceed without fear. If not, go find yourself an IP lawyer and see what s/he says.
 
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Nellisir

Hero
I've started thinking that they might place the Basic Game under OGL, and leave it at that. They already distribute it for free in digital form, so maybe limiting a license to cover the basic game is an idea for WotC.
Putting just the Basic Game under the OGL, as that license stands now, would allow someone else to release a Basic ruleset replacing WotC's rules, AND you'll see a rush to do the sorcerer/monk/warlock/paladin/ranger/druid/bard. Plus tieflings and etc. Essentially the number one item on many low-end publishers list will be rewriting the PHB into the Basic Rules. It seems silly, but that's what'll happen. That's not the content WotC wants, though. They want new stuff added on.

WotC wants people to come to their website and download the Basic Rules. That's just good sense. They want to control the spine of the D&D game. I agree that the Basic Game might be licensed in some form, and we can see that the PHB does NOT have a license in it, but it won't be via the OGL. It will be something tighter in scope. Not as tight as the 4e GSL, but a hybrid between the two.
 

As an example of why something akin to an OGL is handy, it occurs to me that ENWorld is hosting quite a bit of 5e fan created material without a license, so WotC could shut this website down.
While ENWorld doesn't charge for access they do take some money for product, such as for badges and for their AP and game system.
Even if the action is spurious, a Cease & Desist could really hurt the website if also sent to the host as well as Morrus. Which is something WotC has done in the past.

While we're all thinking "we're not doing anything WotC was not alright with in the past", that kind of thinking led to the C+D of Ema's Character Sheets and loss of that resource.

There's still three months (plus) before WotC is reportedly going to release their 3rd Party licence details. That's a long time. A lot of content can be written in that length. Things could get ugly...
 

wedgeski

Adventurer
As an example of why something akin to an OGL is handy, it occurs to me that ENWorld is hosting quite a bit of 5e fan created material without a license, so WotC could shut this website down.
I seriously, seriously doubt that. And even if there was a legal basis, it would show a level of sheer bone-headedness that, while many would like to claim otherwise, they haven't shown in the past.
 

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