D&D 5E Magic Items: Some DM Thoughts

[Zardnaar]

Formore or less my 3rd 5E campaign running it and 4th campaign played I have beentoning down the amount of magic items by a lot. My PCs are just on the verge oflevel 7 and they own the following items.

1. A +1dagger.
2. Maskgranting +2 charisma+fey presence 1/long rest (Paladin, Sorcerer and Bladelockin the party makes this very good)
3. Gauntletsof Ogre Power (cleric uses this, the others have 18 strength already)

Myparties front line fighters are a bladelock and Paladin with a cleric and sorcererfilling out the party. 3 of them can deal magic damage, the Paladin has to usethe spell magic weapon or Moon Beam.

In my1st camapaign I handed out to many magic items as I was using conversions ofolder adventures and even then I reduced them down drastically. A +2 Greatswordand +2 hand crossbow however did not play nice with the Sharpshooter and GreatWeapon Master feats. Now I am using prepublished adventures again but designedfor 5E and they do not hand out as many magi items. I have always been of theopinion that if you want a magic weapon for example you should probably use along sword, short sword, dagger or spear as these are very common magicweapons. Generally I do not change magic items in prepublished adventures tomatch what PCs are using. If you choose a special snowflake weapon (katanas in2E) do not expect to find magical versions of them.

Thismentality is probably a remnant of AD&D as longswords were one of the bestweapons in the game and they were common as magic weapons. A similar theoryapplied to armor as well as magical plate armor may as well have been nonexistent while something like +5 chainmail was much more likely to be found. +5chainmail also gave you a +5 bonus on saves that were physicalattacks like dragon breath and fireball. 4E at least made an effort to fixthis with what armor the classes could wear but it retained the buy magic itemthing from 3.5 while making it a 1 hour ritual to more or less create the exactitem you liked. As youi can guess I prefer AD&D magic item creation ruleswith the exception of a loss of con point when making a permanent magical item,Losing a con point is fine for something like a holy avenger, not so much for a+1 spear.

Thismentality did kind of change with 3E as you could buy magic items and the magicpart was a fixed cost so +5 chainmail was only marginally cheaper than +5 fullplate. In 3.5 and 5E only 3 types of armor really exist (or are wanted byplayers). This trend has continued to 5E as well with missile weapons.In Pathfinder/3.5 you really only have 2 ranged weapons. Compositelongbows and everything else. In 5E you have 3, longbows, hand crossbowsand everything else.

Theway I have recently being running 5E is to try and add some real choicesto the PCs lives. I am more likely to put in +3 leather armor for example than+3 studded leather. I had a inexperienced player who built a low damage swordand board ranger and I put a flametongue longsword in the game that the PCsmanaged to find. I am not very likely to put a flametongue greatsword in thegame nor am I likely to put a +2 great weapon or missile weapon into the gameeither. A +3 dagger however would be fine. One is likely to run into trouble in5E by putting the best enchantments on the most optimal weapons. weapons Iconsider to be the most optimal weapons in 5E BTW.

Greatweapons
HandCrossbows
Polearms
Longbows

Notethese weapons have the best feat support in the game. It is very obvious whatthe most optimal armor in the game is. In 5E the other weapon styles can'treally compete with the above 4 weapons so to balance them out I would be morelikely to include better magical weapons and armor.

Now Iknow the Paladin in the party wants a magical weapon. The PCs were recentlyfacing a lot of elementals and lycanthropes and he was not having the best timeof it at times although his nova damage one on one was good. Also note he wasfar from useless as he had the choice of moonbeam or casting the magic weaponspell. This PC has the great weapon master feat as well but lacks the supportto break the -5/+10 part of the feat. Here we have a conflict of interest itseems.

Player wantsa magic weapon mostly to bypass immunities.

DM is happyto hand out magic items but is reluctant due to previous experiences with greatweapons.

Sohere is what I am going to do. If a magic great weapon drops in an adventure sobe it. I know there are some magical longswords coming up that can be used twohanded so he has a choice there. Better damage or being able to deal magicdamage.

I havealso been looking through the DMG for a weapon he will like and one I do notmind handing out. Put simply I have been looking for one without a magic bonusto hit and one that will not enable buckets of damage as the Paladin is alreadygood at that. Could be worse he is an Oath of the Ancients Paladin instead ofan Avenging Paladin. In the latter case at best I may put in a +1 great weaponby level 15 or so. I considered a flametongue but that gives the Paladin abonus 2d6 damage and the other great weapon user in the party will likely wantit. In that scenario (2 PCs wanting the same item that is equally beneficial toboth of them) they roll dice. An asshat in the party who wants a magic item"just because" is usually excluded from the rolling process they doget to make an argument as to why they should be allowed to roll though.


So theitem I have settled on is the frost brand. As a player I am always happy tofind a frostbrand weapon and they were really good in AD&D and the 5E onelooks quite nice to have with a 1d6 bonus cold damage and half damage fromfire. I will likely work it into an existing adventure or design a side trekwhere the sword can be retrieved from the barrow of a warlord or barbarianking. Said barrow may or may not be full of traps and undead. I would be happywith a frostbrand as a player. The frostbrand weapon was not that good in 3E asyou could get better bang for your buck.

Also note wehave some high powered PCs with rolled stats. Said Paladin has a 20 charismaand 18 strength. I have noticed the higher stats has reduced pressure on statbumps so the PCs are taking feats and often some of the "fun" featsas well instead of the best feats. The sorcerer for example has an 18 conalready so she avoided taking warcaster and took the spell sniper feat whichshe would usually avoid in favor of stat bumps and/or other feats. Higher statsalso make some of the MAD classes a bit more viable IMHO. MAD classes usuallybeing ones that want to use medium armor or ones that want a high dexterity andlack the amount of stat bumps fighters and rogues get.

I likemagic items as a DM and player. I even like powerful magic items and in OSR gamingyou may have an old school frostbrand by level 6 or 7. An old school frostbrand is a +3 weapon, +6 vs fire creatures, immunity to non magical fire, half damagevs magical fire. One difference between OSR and modern D&D gaming I havenoticed is that weapon will be upgraded in 3E onwards while in BECMI/AD&Dyou might be perfectly happy to be using that weapon for the next 10 levels.Drizzt has a frostbrand weapon and in the early books it more or less worksjust like the AD&D one allowing Bruenor to survive being set on fire withoil. Said weapon is also a +6 weapon vs Balors. Another difference is OSRgaming is the lack of feats so you can't stack feats+magic items and easily acquirethe key magic item combos that can break the game. The magical Christmas treeeffect is fun in older editions, problematic in 3E and 4E. Can be problematicin 5E as well but you have more safe guards as the PCs can not easily aquire a+3 hand crossbow compared to 3E, 4E and Pathfinder where RAW you havelenient magic item rules.

In olderD&D one can run around with a Drow ranger with a frostbrand in one hand, a+5 defender in the other hand and +chainmail and not break the game. Bracers ofthe Blinding strike however are a bit much with that. OSR Bracers of theBlinding strike would be the equivalent of action surge 3 times per long rest.Actually if I were to convert those bracers to 5E that’s what I would allowthem to do giving someone the class features of a high level fighter.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Psikerlord#]

Using magic items to balance a party is a time honoured DM tradition.

If you have concerns about giving your paladin a +1 weapon, just make up a +0 magic weapon with a cool utility power or quirk, and ideally some cool connection with the paladin (or something he's interested in). Best of luck!

 

[Tormyr]

In 5e I think a party could technically get away with making it to level 20 without any magic items. Other steps would be needed, especially with regards to overcoming resistance to weapon damage. magic weapon and monks would pop up a bit I guess. That being said, the opposite seems to be true as well. The game does not break even with a party loaded with lower level items and all their attunement slots taken up. I converted Age of Worms and kept most of the magic items from the 3.5 adventure. The party is loaded to the gills, but I can still freak them out without too much effort.

If the magic items are in line with the magic items in the DMG, then I think whatever you do in the end will be fine.

 

[Tony Vargas]

In 5e I think a party could technically get away with making it to level 20 without any magic items. Other steps would be needed, especially with regards to overcoming resistance to weapon damage. magic weapon and monks would pop up a bit I guess.

Without any magic items is not the same as without any casters. Obviously, you'd need spells like magic weapon - and many others - to handle the same range of higher level challenges you might more conveniently handle if you had the right items.

That being said, the opposite seems to be true as well. The game does not break even with a party loaded with lower level items and all their attunement slots taken up.

Seems improbable. Magic items are supposed to make a character 'just better,' you can't accumulate too huge a load of 'just better,' before you start breaking the game's assumptions. The DM, though, can (and is presumably expected to) just compensate by ratcheting up challenges as much as necessary.

 

[Tormyr]

Without any magic items is not the same as without any casters. Obviously, you'd need spells like magic weapon - and many others - to handle the same range of higher level challenges you might more conveniently handle if you had the right items.

Seems improbable. Magic items are supposed to make a character 'just better,' you can't accumulate too huge a load of 'just better,' before you start breaking the game's assumptions. The DM, though, can (and is presumably expected to) just compensate by ratcheting up challenges as much as necessary.

True, a DM could definitely break the game with too many or too powerful of magic items. I only have my conversion of Age of Worms to go off of.

While I kept many of the magic items, the 5e assumptions about magic items, 3 attunement slots, and action economy add many real choices to the buffet of magic items offered up by a 3.5 adventure.
* +X items scale down to fit in 5e's limit. +1 and +2 = +1, +3 and +4 = +2, and +5 and up = +3. I also only put +x items on named NPCs. or treasure hoards.
* The players quickly got the point of: okay, I have these magic items, but I cannot use them all because of attunement slots. 1 player has a ring of protection, a brooch of shielding, and a rod of empower (per the sorcerer ability 3/day). He is done in terms of attunement items until he gives something up.
* Many other items that do something cool have a limitation because of action economy. I adapted a wand of cure light wounds into a wand of healing word modeled after a wand of magic missile for the charges. Because it means using an action, they generally don't touch it except to keep someone from bleeding out.

So in actual play, all the non spell casters generally have a +1 to hit and +1 to AC. They might also have some other good item, but it does not change the balance of things very much. In the end, they still get scared of the bad guys.

If I were to start over again, I would have skipped the wands of CLW and Shatter and possibly divided the value of the treasure by 10.

 

[CapnZapp]

Formore or less my 3rd 5E campaign running it and 4th campaign played I have beentoning down the amount of magic items by a lot. My PCs are just on the verge oflevel 7 and they own the following items.

1. A +1dagger.
2. Maskgranting +2 charisma+fey presence 1/long rest (Paladin, Sorcerer and Bladelockin the party makes this very good)
3. Gauntletsof Ogre Power (cleric uses this, the others have 18 strength already)

Myparties front line fighters are a bladelock and Paladin with a cleric and sorcererfilling out the party. 3 of them can deal magic damage, the Paladin has to usethe spell magic weapon or Moon Beam.

In my1st camapaign I handed out to many magic items as I was using conversions ofolder adventures and even then I reduced them down drastically. A +2 Greatswordand +2 hand crossbow however did not play nice with the Sharpshooter and GreatWeapon Master feats. Now I am using prepublished adventures again but designedfor 5E and they do not hand out as many magi items. I have always been of theopinion that if you want a magic weapon for example you should probably use along sword, short sword, dagger or spear as these are very common magicweapons. Generally I do not change magic items in prepublished adventures tomatch what PCs are using. If you choose a special snowflake weapon (katanas in2E) do not expect to find magical versions of them.

Thismentality is probably a remnant of AD&D as longswords were one of the bestweapons in the game and they were common as magic weapons. A similar theoryapplied to armor as well as magical plate armor may as well have been nonexistent while something like +5 chainmail was much more likely to be found. +5chainmail also gave you a +5 bonus on saves that were physicalattacks like dragon breath and fireball. 4E at least made an effort to fixthis with what armor the classes could wear but it retained the buy magic itemthing from 3.5 while making it a 1 hour ritual to more or less create the exactitem you liked. As youi can guess I prefer AD&D magic item creation ruleswith the exception of a loss of con point when making a permanent magical item,Losing a con point is fine for something like a holy avenger, not so much for a+1 spear.

Thismentality did kind of change with 3E as you could buy magic items and the magicpart was a fixed cost so +5 chainmail was only marginally cheaper than +5 fullplate. In 3.5 and 5E only 3 types of armor really exist (or are wanted byplayers). This trend has continued to 5E as well with missile weapons.In Pathfinder/3.5 you really only have 2 ranged weapons. Compositelongbows and everything else. In 5E you have 3, longbows, hand crossbowsand everything else.

Theway I have recently being running 5E is to try and add some real choicesto the PCs lives. I am more likely to put in +3 leather armor for example than+3 studded leather. I had a inexperienced player who built a low damage swordand board ranger and I put a flametongue longsword in the game that the PCsmanaged to find. I am not very likely to put a flametongue greatsword in thegame nor am I likely to put a +2 great weapon or missile weapon into the gameeither. A +3 dagger however would be fine. One is likely to run into trouble in5E by putting the best enchantments on the most optimal weapons. weapons Iconsider to be the most optimal weapons in 5E BTW.

Greatweapons
HandCrossbows
Polearms
Longbows

Notethese weapons have the best feat support in the game. It is very obvious whatthe most optimal armor in the game is. In 5E the other weapon styles can'treally compete with the above 4 weapons so to balance them out I would be morelikely to include better magical weapons and armor.

Now Iknow the Paladin in the party wants a magical weapon. The PCs were recentlyfacing a lot of elementals and lycanthropes and he was not having the best timeof it at times although his nova damage one on one was good. Also note he wasfar from useless as he had the choice of moonbeam or casting the magic weaponspell. This PC has the great weapon master feat as well but lacks the supportto break the -5/+10 part of the feat. Here we have a conflict of interest itseems.

Player wantsa magic weapon mostly to bypass immunities.

DM is happyto hand out magic items but is reluctant due to previous experiences with greatweapons.

Sohere is what I am going to do. If a magic great weapon drops in an adventure sobe it. I know there are some magical longswords coming up that can be used twohanded so he has a choice there. Better damage or being able to deal magicdamage.

I havealso been looking through the DMG for a weapon he will like and one I do notmind handing out. Put simply I have been looking for one without a magic bonusto hit and one that will not enable buckets of damage as the Paladin is alreadygood at that. Could be worse he is an Oath of the Ancients Paladin instead ofan Avenging Paladin. In the latter case at best I may put in a +1 great weaponby level 15 or so. I considered a flametongue but that gives the Paladin abonus 2d6 damage and the other great weapon user in the party will likely wantit. In that scenario (2 PCs wanting the same item that is equally beneficial toboth of them) they roll dice. An asshat in the party who wants a magic item"just because" is usually excluded from the rolling process they doget to make an argument as to why they should be allowed to roll though.


So theitem I have settled on is the frost brand. As a player I am always happy tofind a frostbrand weapon and they were really good in AD&D and the 5E onelooks quite nice to have with a 1d6 bonus cold damage and half damage fromfire. I will likely work it into an existing adventure or design a side trekwhere the sword can be retrieved from the barrow of a warlord or barbarianking. Said barrow may or may not be full of traps and undead. I would be happywith a frostbrand as a player. The frostbrand weapon was not that good in 3E asyou could get better bang for your buck.

Also note wehave some high powered PCs with rolled stats. Said Paladin has a 20 charismaand 18 strength. I have noticed the higher stats has reduced pressure on statbumps so the PCs are taking feats and often some of the "fun" featsas well instead of the best feats. The sorcerer for example has an 18 conalready so she avoided taking warcaster and took the spell sniper feat whichshe would usually avoid in favor of stat bumps and/or other feats. Higher statsalso make some of the MAD classes a bit more viable IMHO. MAD classes usuallybeing ones that want to use medium armor or ones that want a high dexterity andlack the amount of stat bumps fighters and rogues get.

I likemagic items as a DM and player. I even like powerful magic items and in OSR gamingyou may have an old school frostbrand by level 6 or 7. An old school frostbrand is a +3 weapon, +6 vs fire creatures, immunity to non magical fire, half damagevs magical fire. One difference between OSR and modern D&D gaming I havenoticed is that weapon will be upgraded in 3E onwards while in BECMI/AD&Dyou might be perfectly happy to be using that weapon for the next 10 levels.Drizzt has a frostbrand weapon and in the early books it more or less worksjust like the AD&D one allowing Bruenor to survive being set on fire withoil. Said weapon is also a +6 weapon vs Balors. Another difference is OSRgaming is the lack of feats so you can't stack feats+magic items and easily acquirethe key magic item combos that can break the game. The magical Christmas treeeffect is fun in older editions, problematic in 3E and 4E. Can be problematicin 5E as well but you have more safe guards as the PCs can not easily aquire a+3 hand crossbow compared to 3E, 4E and Pathfinder where RAW you havelenient magic item rules.

In olderD&D one can run around with a Drow ranger with a frostbrand in one hand, a+5 defender in the other hand and +chainmail and not break the game. Bracers ofthe Blinding strike however are a bit much with that. OSR Bracers of theBlinding strike would be the equivalent of action surge 3 times per long rest.Actually if I were to convert those bracers to 5E that’s what I would allowthem to do giving someone the class features of a high level fighter.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

Sorry, but you're skipping to many spaces for me to read long enough to get to your point.

You could really do with a TLDR summary at the start of such a ramble.

Cheers,

 

[meomwt]

Using magic items to balance a party is a time honoured DM tradition.

If you have concerns about giving your paladin a +1 weapon, just make up a +0 magic weapon with a cool utility power or quirk, and ideally some cool connection with the paladin (or something he's interested in). Best of luck!

I did this back in the day: my 2nd Edition AD&D game featured a sword called Flamebreaker. It was +0 to hit, but still counted as a magical weapon, gave protection against fire, and did double damage against Flame Elementals. It took the party quite a while to cotton on that it was +0, and the fighter using it never gave the darned ting up!

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I like the idea of having magic items be a rare and wonderous commodity. Players love them, though, so I think that maybe 1-2 dispensed per tier of difficulty (so 1 or 2 by 5th level, 2-4 by 11th level, 3-6 by 18th level and 4-8 by 20th) per PC seems like a sweet spot.

From a DM perspective I have to be aware that a PC magic item 'budget' means that I have to be cautious with how I equip their opponents. Players will become quickly frustrated when cool enemy magic items being used against them are somehow being broken, lost or depleted when the battle is over.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I did this back in the day: my 2nd Edition AD&D game featured a sword called Flamebreaker. It was +0 to hit, but still counted as a magical weapon, gave protection against fire, and did double damage against Flame Elementals. It took the party quite a while to cotton on that it was +0, and the fighter using it never gave the darned ting up!

Yeah that is sweet!

 

[DaveDash]

I've been sticking with mostly +1 weapons and armours, cloaks of protection, etc. Nothing too serious. (My group is level 15). Their most powerful item is an ioun stone of reserve, which they put the shield spell in and give to the Paladin. They also have a Hammer of Thunderbolts but they don't have the other items yet, and they have a Belt of Dwarven Kind which has come in handy against poison damage quite a bit.
Their favorite item is probably the immovable rod.

I have been rolling on the hoard tables and keeping the rolls as they get more powerful.

Some notable items that they've got coming up:
Vorpal Greatsword (rolled randomly for both).
Sphere of Annihilation.
Holy Avenger Greatsword (also rolled randomly).
Tomb of Clear Thought +2 (In the guts of a Kraken)
Rod of spell absorption (In the guts of a Kraken)
Wand of the War Mage +3
Belt of Fire Giant Strength.

If they find all those, the Paladin sure will be happy.

I'm not concerned about game balance though, because I'm using the DMG rules for monster creation instead of using stock monsters in the MM, and they seem way more powerful. Attunement also tends to keep things in check.