D&D 5E 5e Fighter, Do You Enjoy Playiing It?

[Celtavian]

Some of the battlemaster maneuvers are a bit weak or low in utility.

In our game, I replaced Second Wind with a reaction for the same number of temp hit points (which are immediately used for the damage being taken).

It makes more sense to me that the Fighter can react and deflect most of an attack off of his armor, than it does that he can heal himself.

It typically results in more or less the same end result, but the flavor is different. And it prevents the Fighter PC from taking multiple short rests to heal himself up from low hit points to high.

I like Second Wind. Felt like he was psyching himself up to push on like an athlete does.

 

[KarinsDad]

I like Second Wind. Felt like he was psyching himself up to push on like an athlete does.

Although I understand that POV, mechanically it works exactly like a heal, so in many players minds, the Fighter is healing himself. Err, why?

I don't mind the boost, I just mind the way it was mechanically done.


Course, I kind of disliked the entire 4E Warlord rally the troops heals too (and Second Wind in 4E for that matter). Rallying is fine, but it shouldn't be healing. It should be some other type of mechanical boost (like temp hit points which are short lived, just like a rally should be). And yeah, I understand, but totally disagree with, the entire "hit points are not damage" concept. Meh. Let's not go there.

 

[Celtavian]

Although I understand that POV, mechanically it works exactly like a heal, so in many players minds, the Fighter is healing himself. Err, why?

I don't mind the boost, I just mind the way it was mechanically done.


Course, I kind of disliked the entire 4E Warlord rally the troops heals too (and Second Wind in 4E for that matter). Rallying is fine, but it shouldn't be healing. It should be some other type of mechanical boost (like temp hit points which are short lived, just like a rally should be). And yeah, I understand, but totally disagree with, the entire "hit points are not damage" concept. Meh. Let's not go there.

I guess I look at hit points as more abstract than you do. If a person even has 1 hit point, they are nearly at full ability. Once they reach zero hit points in my mind, they are so fatigued and worn down that they can't avoid a killing blow any longer. Prior to that, they are good to go. I view Second Wind as a adrenaline boost. I tend to use the source of the hit point recovery to determine the fiction behind the healing. Second Wind is an adrenaline boost. Magical healing heals nicks, cuts, bruises, and revitalizes muscles. Vampire Touch drains life.

It is mostly cosmetic. I can understand why you prefer it the way you do. Mechanically temporary hit points might have fit Second Wind better. Given how you use Second Wind, it would have had the same effect. Though it might have been pretty powerful to be able to stack on temporary hit points at the start of a fight as a sort of buffer.

 

[Uchawi]

Hit points are at the crux of a lot of arguments, including healing. Since there will never be a 100 percent agreement on what hit points represent, we are not going to agree on what healing represents, what damage represents, etc.

 

[Celtavian]

Hit points aren't concrete enough to have arguments over. They definitely are viewed differently from person to person.

 

[KarinsDad]

I guess I look at hit points as more abstract than you do. If a person even has 1 hit point, they are nearly at full ability.

I don't know of any player playing a Fighter with 1 hit point that will rush into a group of foes or charge a Dragon.

1 hit point is significantly different than full hit points, and it definitely changes the decisions of a vast majority of players of any class.

In my mind and many players minds, it means that the PC is injured. Not enough to affect his combat ability, but enough to affect the decisions of the player. I don't know of any player who will drink a Potion of Healing mid-encounter when near full hit points. Happens quite often at 1 hit point.

It is mostly cosmetic. I can understand why you prefer it the way you do. Mechanically temporary hit points might have fit Second Wind better. Given how you use Second Wind, it would have had the same effect. Though it might have been pretty powerful to be able to stack on temporary hit points at the start of a fight as a sort of buffer.

It's not that powerful at all. The PC cannot use it until actually hit, so unless that hit combined with any others were going to take the Fighter down to zero hit points before his next turn, the vast majority of the time, there is very little difference. It matters once in a blue moon, but it's not that big of a deal. The difference, though, is that with the core rules, the Fighter can heal up from 1 hit point to max hit points via multiple short rests. That's my primary motivation for implementing the house rule (that and I didn't like 4E Second Wind).

 

[Celtavian]

I don't know of any player playing a Fighter with 1 hit point that will rush into a group of foes or charge a Dragon.

1 hit point is significantly different than full hit points, and it definitely changes the decisions of a vast majority of players of any class.

In my mind and many players minds, it means that the PC is injured. Not enough to affect his combat ability, but enough to affect the decisions of the player. I don't know of any player who will drink a Potion of Healing mid-encounter when near full hit points. Happens quite often at 1 hit point.

I meant full combat ability, not full health.

It's not that powerful at all. The PC cannot use it until actually hit, so unless that hit combined with any others were going to take the Fighter down to zero hit points before his next turn, the vast majority of the time, there is very little difference. It matters once in a blue moon, but it's not that big of a deal. The difference, though, is that with the core rules, the Fighter can heal up from 1 hit point to max hit points via multiple short rests. That's my primary motivation for implementing the house rule (that and I didn't like 4E Second Wind).

Therein lies the cheese.

 

[Ashkelon]

IMHO second wind should have given you temp HP equal to 25% of your Mac HP, but is only usable while below half your max HP.

The alternative to second wind should simply be the toughness feat.

 

[KarinsDad]

I meant full combat ability, not full health.

And what I am trying to point out is that without full hit points, a PC is not at full combat ability. His defense is extremely hindered. At one hit point, his defensive combat ability is almost nonexistent.

Therein lies the cheese.

Yup.

 

[Warbringer]

And what I am trying to point out is that without full hit points, a PC is not at full combat ability. His defense is extremely hindered. At one hit point, his defensive combat ability is almost nonexistent.

Hit points are only one measure of full combat utility, as are spells, combat dice and other short rest attack options. None of these are reduced in effect by hit point depletion.

If you're going to play hit points as meat, I would either add a death spiral or prevent players from meta gaming their hit points, ie controlling character action on how fast they fall to 0.

I use injuries on top of hit point loss, fwiw

Just my 2p