D&D 5E 5e Fighter, Do You Enjoy Playiing It?

[KarinsDad]

Hit points are only one measure of full combat utility, as are spells, combat dice and other short rest attack options. None of these are reduced in effect by hit point depletion.

If you're going to play hit points as meat, I would either add a death spiral or prevent players from meta gaming their hit points, ie controlling character action on how fast they fall to 0.

Why? Players already meta game decisions on every single aspect of character features, abilities, and mechanics. What makes hit points so special? It's human nature, even for those roleplayers who purposely try to ignore that stuff. It's a game. Players should typically make PC decisions based on the current situation in the game and based on the rules. It's not metagaming to not attack a dragon when you have one hit point left. It's smart play.


Been using hit points as indications of damage since 1E. Works fine. Hence the terms heal and damage all over the PHB, MM, and DMG in every version. Just because I view a decrease in hit points as damage does not mean that I think that other abilities should be penalized (although I played for many years with a bloodied system of -1 or -2 to all D20 rolls when half damaged).

I use injuries on top of hit point loss, fwiw

Just my 2p

Cool.

 

[Celtavian]

And what I am trying to point out is that without full hit points, a PC is not at full combat ability. His defense is extremely hindered. At one hit point, his defensive combat ability is almost nonexistent.

That is true. His defenses are essentially exhausted in the fiction of hit points. His armor still functions and his reflexes, but his body is on the verge of quitting. It is at that point where he must choose to run and try to live or stay and probably die. He has to rely on his healer to survive. No different than a real world soldier having to rely on his medic when grievously wounded.

 

[Ashkelon]

That is true. His defenses are essentially exhausted in the fiction of hit points. His armor still functions and his reflexes, but his body is on the verge of quitting. It is at that point where he must choose to run and try to live or stay and probably die. He has to rely on his healer to survive. No different than a real world soldier having to rely on his medic when grievously wounded.

Actually it is very different. A wounded soldier in real life could not run a marathon, jump a 20 foot chasm, or otherwise perform physical activities unimpeded. A D&D character with 1 HP is far from having his body on the verge of quitting.

All 1 HP means is that the PC is basically out of "plot armor". He is still functioning at 100% effectiveness. His combat capabilities are just as potent at 1 HP as they were at 100. The difference is that without plot armor to protect him from otherwise deadly attacks, the next blow that lands will take him down.

 

[KarinsDad]

Actually it is very different. A wounded soldier in real life could not run a marathon, jump a 20 foot chasm, or otherwise perform physical activities unimpeded. A D&D character with 1 HP is far from having his body on the verge of quitting.

All 1 HP means is that the PC is basically out of "plot armor". He is still functioning at 100% effectiveness. His combat capabilities are just as potent at 1 HP as they were at 100. The difference is that without plot armor to protect him from otherwise deadly attacks, the next blow that lands will take him down.

He could wade through the pool of acid at full hit points or run through the wall of fire. He cannot at one hit point.

He is not still functioning at 100% effectiveness, it depends on what the player wants him to do.


In the real world, a wounded soldier can still read. There are some things that can be done with no impediment wounded in the real world, the same occurs in D&D, the list of what that might be is different.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Actually it is very different. A wounded soldier in real life could not run a marathon, jump a 20 foot chasm, or otherwise perform physical activities unimpeded.


.

Actually, it's not. We have dozens of examples of soldiers suffering grievous wounds and still able to function at full combat functionality. And what are PCs, but representative of these rare men and women who are exceptional? You or I might not be able to function fully after taking a bullet wound, but we're not that rare % of people that PCs are supposed to represent either.

 

[Mistwell]

It's hard to get 80% approval for something on an internet poll like this, where negative voices tend to be louder than positive ones. So, I'd say this poll does help dispel the notion that there is a problem with the 5e fighter in general.

 

[Gadget]

Actually, it's not. We have dozens of examples of soldiers suffering grievous wounds and still able to function at full combat functionality. And what are PCs, but representative of these rare men and women who are exceptional? You or I might not be able to function fully after taking a bullet wound, but we're not that rare % of people that PCs are supposed to represent either.

Do these people 'level up' and double the amount of bullet wounds they take next month? And don't most of these people collapse after a brief period when the adrenaline runs out, shock sets in. Someone at 1 hp does not collapse from shock after the combat is over. HP as meat has just as many holes, and makes just as little sense as all other interpretations of HP, sometimes less. So, just pick and interpretation and play with what you like.

 

[Celtavian]

Actually it is very different. A wounded soldier in real life could not run a marathon, jump a 20 foot chasm, or otherwise perform physical activities unimpeded. A D&D character with 1 HP is far from having his body on the verge of quitting.

All 1 HP means is that the PC is basically out of "plot armor". He is still functioning at 100% effectiveness. His combat capabilities are just as potent at 1 HP as they were at 100. The difference is that without plot armor to protect him from otherwise deadly attacks, the next blow that lands will take him down.

I meant to survive. A grievously wounded soldier needs a medic to survive. Not the rest of it. D&D has never had a realistic wounding system because the game is more cinematic than realistic.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Do these people 'level up' and double the amount of bullet wounds they take next month?

Irrelevant to the point being argued. Ashkelon said that a soldier in real life couldn't do X and Y after being wounded. Nothing to do with levels. And obviously he is not correct, by the hundreds of real life examples we have of soldiers doing just that.

And don't most of these people collapse after a brief period when the adrenaline runs out, shock sets in. .

No, they don't. Seriously, go read up on some of those entries. A lot of those guys fought for hours, and even days. Seeing as how Ashkelon gave you XP for your post, it's clear he didn't bother following that link either. I think I need to start charging a tip though, as in the past week or so, Ashkelon has literally given XP to anyone who disagreed with me. That really isn't an exaggeration. So I at least deserve a % cut of that

 

[Tony Vargas]

Actually it is very different. A wounded soldier in real life could not run a marathon, jump a 20 foot chasm, or otherwise perform physical activities unimpeded. A D&D character with 1 HP is far from having his body on the verge of quitting.

For short times, he might (probably not a marathon, sure), but it's a pretty random thing. A non-fatal wound can be instantly, fully disabling, a mortal wound can be barely felt and hardly impair the victim at all for the few moments - even hours - before he inevitably dies. And that's just reality, never mind fiction, let alone heroic fiction, let alone heroic fantasy.

Few games capture that bizarre randomness at all (Hero is one of them - you track 'stun,' which determines if you're still conscious and able to act, and 'body,' which determines if you're alive, dying, or dead, almost entirely separately, and 'killing attacks' can do a relatively large amount of stun or very little, relative to the body inflicted, based on a random damage roll). D&D doesn't remotely try, instead....

All 1 HP means is that the PC is basically out of "plot armor".

Exactly. Hps capture the very heroic-fantasy-genre (and, indeed, even broader, applying to any heroic or 'action' sub-genre) trope of 'plot armor.' Protagonists survive all sorts of extreme dangers without being disabled (for long) or killed (for reals). D&D models the whole range of bizarre coincidences, preternatural abilities, and authorial fiat that go into keeping heroes alive & fighting with Hit Points and Saving Throws.

D&D doesn't model extreme, permanent injuries, lasting disability, or irrevocable death hardly at all (and when it does, does so with one-off sub-systems for that purpose, like a sword of sharpness that lops off limbs, or a horrible cursed item that slays irrevocably) - certainly never as a result of mere hit point damage. Hit points simply don't model disabling injuries, either short-term disabling (other than unconsciousness) or long-term (other than dead - until Raised). Nothing about them remotely begins to do so: Not the way they're inflicted, not the way they're tracked, not the effect they have, and not the way they're recovered.

And, definitely not the way they've been explained in the editions that went into any detail at all to rationalize them.