D&D 5E So, 5e OGL

[Umbran]

I'd agree- except that WotC didn't make an announcement. Hollywood Reporter, Variety, etc. all reported on the legal updates, but those happen to the courts' timetable, not WotC's.

You didn't note that the legal update was about a *settlement*, not a ruling, so it was initiated by the companies, not the courts, and so on the company timelines? And you figure all those bigwigs from Hasbro and WB who are quoted did so under time pressure from the Hollywood Reporter, and Variety, and had no control on when the articles appeared? And the remarkable structural and content similarities between the various articles are just convergent reporting, and not a number of outlets all basing off the same orchestrated press release?

My understanding is that those magazines collude quite a bit with companies in respect to timing of such articles. The Monday announcement was no accident.

 

[Morrus]

You didn't note that the legal update was about a *settlement*, not a ruling, so it was initiated by the companies, not the courts, and so on the company timelines? And you figure all those bigwigs from Hasbro and WB who are quoted did so under time pressure from the Hollywood Reporter, and Variety, and had no control on when the articles appeared? And the remarkable structural and content similarities between the various articles are just convergent reporting, and not a number of outlets all basing off the same orchestrated press release?

My understanding is that those magazines collude quite a bit with companies in respect to timing of such articles. The Monday announcement was no accident.

You're probably right.

Which means if I want to get included in major D&D announcements, I need to report them with as much misinformation as possible, so they feel I should be kept informed!

 

[Mistwell]

I'd agree- except that WotC didn't make an announcement. Hollywood Reporter, Variety, etc. all reported on the legal updates, but those happen to the courts' timetable, not WotC's.

Naw, it was a settlement. The timing is in the settlement, agreed to by both parties. It's done with a press release I believe jointly released by both parties, which is where HR and Variety got their update. [Edit, Ninja'ed by Umbran]

 

[Mistwell]

You're probably right.

Which means if I want to get included in major D&D announcements, I need to report them with as much misinformation as possible, so they feel I should be kept informed!

I think you may be able to register with Hasbro's PR department to receive press releases.

 

[Jester David]

Look, I wanted to know from WotC if there was movement on the OGL front and hoped they say something during Gen Con. So, goalpost-moving to "major" aside, they made sure to make mention of it in their stack of Gen Con-timed announcements via the podcast interview.

Did you listen to the interview?
He really wanted to just leave things at "no comment" but the interviewer managed to get a little more out of him. He didn't leap to offer the update or prioritize the description.

It's clear they have no interest in having a full SRD and OGL in use during 5E. I also think we'll see more cracking down on those who try to do an end-around with the OGL intimating 5E compatibility. So far, I think it's only been a few websites with generators and wholesale use of actual 5E content that have run afoul of WotC but as it becomes more widely apparent they aren't going near the OGL, I also think more folks who want to publish 5E material will take more chances and cross some lines that may not yet have been crossed. We'll see.

It's probably only a matter of time before an OGL publisher ends up getting C+Ded over an error in a document. It's too easy to make a mistake.

 

[delericho]

But again, if 5e backs away from the OGL, other companies will return to the 3e OGL, create an alternative that competes with 5e, splits the players, and 5e will flourish less.

I disagree. I think WotC's big mistake with 4e and the GSL was one of timing - they backed away from the OGL at the same time as they were producing a 4e that was... controversial.

With 5e, they've produced a well-received new edition first and have already gotten the fan buy-in. This means that the loss of the OGL is less of an issue - there isn't a big body of fans currently in a wait-and-see mode for this edition.

Plus, it bears repeating (again) that what happened with Paizo and Pathfinder was a convergence of many circumstances coming together just right. There isn't really scope for anyone else "doing a Pathfinder" and coming up with a 5e-replacement, because there's no-one out there with access to a database of 40k magazine subscribers looking for a new home.

(Of course, some publishers may now scrap any 5e plans they had and instead publish their support material for Pathfinder instead. But I doubt that will make much difference either way - those people who have bought into the various games have now made their choice and are unlikely to be swayed by 3pp going one way or the other.)

It's probably only a matter of time before an OGL publisher ends up getting C+Ded over an error in a document.

Unless someone tries a wholesale 5e clone, I suspect WotC may well just not care (about books/PDFs anyway). If they don't release under the OGL, I would expect most 3pp to simply stay away, leaving only the few players we've seen publish already. In which case, they're probably not worth the PR hit.

(Two further exceptions to this: if someone engages in trademark violation, WotC will have to take action, of course. And they'll be stricter on electronic tools, as they'll need to police these to protect the value of possible licenses.)

 

[Iosue]

I also think we'll see more cracking down on those who try to do an end-around with the OGL intimating 5E compatibility. So far, I think it's only been a few websites with generators and wholesale use of actual 5E content that have run afoul of WotC but as it becomes more widely apparent they aren't going near the OGL, I also think more folks who want to publish 5E material will take more chances and cross some lines that may not yet have been crossed. We'll see.

Given that the C&D's issued to the 5e character generators were rescinded when the generators went to pure Basic Rules content without PHB content, and that Frog God Games, and now Sasquatch and Kobold Press are putting out material clearly intimating 5th edition compatibility, why do you think this?

Personally, I think the D&D team is enjoying the best of both worlds. Even if the WotC higher-ups won't sign off on a new 5e OGL SRD, the Basic Rules docs and the original OGL provide plenty of wriggle room for third parties to make 5e products. What does an all new OGL SRD get them? Some good will from a segment of their core fanbase. Maybe a PR bump. But it also comes with a glut of product which they'd rather not have, and the possibility of someone easily and completely cloning their system again. By simply letting the original OGL and SRD do the heavy lifting, they get the benefits with none of the downside.

 

[Mark CMG]

Given that the C&D's issued to the 5e character generators were rescinded when the generators went to pure Basic Rules content without PHB content, and that Frog God Games, and now Sasquatch and Kobold Press are putting out material clearly intimating 5th edition compatibility, why do you think this?

Personally, I think the D&D team is enjoying the best of both worlds. Even if the WotC higher-ups won't sign off on a new 5e OGL SRD, the Basic Rules docs and the original OGL provide plenty of wriggle room for third parties to make 5e products. What does an all new OGL SRD get them? Some good will from a segment of their core fanbase. Maybe a PR bump. But it also comes with a glut of product which they'd rather not have, and the possibility of someone easily and completely cloning their system again. By simply letting the original OGL and SRD do the heavy lifting, they get the benefits with none of the downside.

Maybe but I think the "Basic Rules" might have been good enough early on with an OGL on the horizon, even if distant. The deeper the game gets, the less adequate that is as a basis for (not, wink-wink) claiming compatibility with the World's Most Populace Roleplaying Game (tm, i.e., e.g., PhD, etc.).

In some cases, the less adequate that is, the more tempting it is to emulate something beyond the Basic rules. In other cases, those doing the intimating and running a game with all the rules might just get careless. If WotC is consciously avoiding the OGL then one of the reasons must be the Genie-Out-of-the-Bottle syndrome. They can't allow some folks to illegally do something then go after others for the same practice, so they have to hold the line at some particular point. If, as you say, that line is Basic, then what we might see coming is a tipping point where Basic isn't enough for the winkers and WotC not willing to ignore the winking when it's about more than Basic.

 

[Mark CMG]

Did you listen to the interview?
He really wanted to just leave things at "no comment" but the interviewer managed to get a little more out of him. He didn't leap to offer the update or prioritize the description.

I get it. I hoped for more information and you adamantly said that we'd hear nothing. You posted again and again in no uncertain terms that NOTHING would be heard or known in the way of a WotC announcement of anything because "no panels" were being held. You claimed there'd be no announcements connected with Gen Con from any quarter including press releases from the office (and did a little dance at close of business on Friday). Every time I posted a query requesting if anyone had any new information on the OGL, you wildly flailed about, incredulous that someone could possibly think that any information on anything at all would be available to anyone. I won't deny, it was fun to watch. However, you were wrong. We know stuff. Move on, dude.

It's probably only a matter of time before an OGL publisher ends up getting C+Ded over an error in a document. It's too easy to make a mistake.

I've said as much myself.

 

[jmucchiello]

It's probably only a matter of time before an OGL publisher ends up getting C+Ded over an error in a document. It's too easy to make a mistake.

It would have to be a dire mistake to result in a C+D. Aside from protecting trademarks, the violation would have to include wholesale copying of layouts and wordings before I think WotC would take the PR chance of issuing a C+D. A full 5e SRD would certainly get their attention. At least 99% of 5e could be sourced from exist OGC. And that attention might result in a C+D but that doesn't mean it would result in a full lawsuit if someone had the money to force their hand.