D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

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The notion that Christians have never been a persecuted group is a sustainable opinion for young people unaware of history or current world affairs. Early on, Christians were rounded up and thrown into pits and arenas while lions were loosed to devour them while audiences cheered. As recently as the last few years up to and including this year, Christians have been decapitated for their faith in the middle east. In parts of Asia, governments oppress many sects of Christianity, including public beatings by the police, imprisonment, and more unspeakable crimes against humanity.

the middle east situation is mind bogglingly complicated, so I won't touch that here, but the idea that Christians were ever thrown into arenas with lions by the romans is false. It was made up by Christians hundreds of years later as propaganda against remaining pagan elements in Roman society. When it was supposed to have happened, and the stories involved the great Colosseum in Rome, that building didn't exist. Also, the Romans kept great records of who they tortured and killed in entertaining ways. No contemporary evidence exists to support the idea that Christians were killed in big spectacle fashion like later reports claimed.

Also, that was almost 2000 years ago. It has no bearing on whether or not Christians have ever been persecuted in living memory, much less whether or not they are in modern western culture, which is, I believe, the point that was being made.
In western nations, Christianity is not subject to oppression. Period. That is inarguable fact.
 

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IMO, "Baatezu, Tarari'i, and Yugoloth" is better and far more interesting than "Demon, devil, and daemon."

Seriously, "daemon"?!? What is this, UNIX D&D? That's what happens when you try to use generic terms for specific creatures, and you run out of generic terms but you have another idea that needs a generic name.

5E reverted to Demons and Devils but oddly it kept Yugoloths instead of Daemons. At my table, Baatezu still refer to themselves as Baatezu, and the terms "demon" and "devil" get interchangeably applied to Tanari'i, Baatezu, Mind Flayers, and Tyrannosaurs.

Quick note: Daemon is older than Demon, and originally meant something different than what Demon means now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(classical_mythology)
Still not a great name here. Would have been a decent categorical name for Fey and related spirits, though.
 

It seems like some(SOME) of the proponents for Homosexuals and Transgender's (as well as others) want the game not only open to their orientation but for it to be forced on other peoples tables as well. The game IS open to those types of orientation IF you desire it.

It is perfectly fine to never have it enter your game as well.

Each of us includes what they wish into our games and it's always been this way. Back in the AD&D days I knew one DM who made Strahd von Zarovich a women! He was actually Tatyana who had been infected with vampirism when he(the real Strahd) had attacked the castle and killed Sergei. Tatyana destroyed Strahd and then became him.

The point is it's everyone's right to have or not have whatever orientation they want in their games. If you are a player in someone else's game you have every right to speak up and talk to the DM and others if what is brought to the table doesn't suit you. If that doesn't make the table acceptable to you, you have every right to not play at that table.

Heck,start your own game and include whatever you like!

Sexual orientation, political beliefs and religious views are not things you have a right to experience at the D&D table. You do have every right to include them at your table and find players who find that worthwhile.

Also just to be honest. I do include some of those orientations myself from time to time at my own table but still keep it at a G/PG13 rating. I only do so however with players I am sure are ok with that. If I am unsure I don't bring it up at all. Seeing as I play with the same people 99% of the time though...it's as the story needs.

You know I reread that and agree even more. Sexual orientation isn't something I find fitting at my table other than in the most basic of ways. Heterosexual or something else it doesn't matter. I find characters trying to pick up sexual partners in the Inn's or brothels or even going home to their wives all things that they should keep to themselves for the most part. Kinda like one line note if they feel they need to include it. (Bramstoke is happily married to Heimdal) is absolutely fine and even gives me a adventure hook at some point!

I tired long ago of players role playing Date for Gold and Adventure!, at my table.

As many have said, repeatedly, it's not about being "allowed" to do anything. No one needs your permission, or wotc's permission, or my permission or anyone else's. Or the DM's permission, for that matter.

it's about recognition, and representation. I'm sorry if this is rude, but..this is not complicated. At all.
Marginalized people want their game to recognize their existence, just like it constantly and pervasively recognizes those who aren't marginalized, and to represent them in media related to the game. There is no reason that the female guard can't, if she mentions a spouse, mention a female spouse. Guards in adventures and novels mentiona spouses. or sweethearts. it's a thing, and it's a normal thing, and it's a good thing, in terms of storytelling and world building. It increases immersion for people to have their minds on such things.
but some of them can be queer, and your world isn't going to end. But it will mean a hell of a lot to people who need that sort of thing in their lives, because most media doesn't provide it (or does, but only in gross stereotype). And their need is more important than straight peoples' vague dislike of the discussion, or whatever.
 


My friend, allow me to share some information with you. Trans people - like gays, lesbians, cross dressers, etc - are NOT a new thing.
There's a sense in which you're right and a sense in which [MENTION=6801554]discosoc[/MENTION] is right. You're absolutely correct that the trait we now identify as "transgender" is biological in nature and has probably existed for as long as humanity has. However, as with homosexuality, different cultures have conceptualized the trait in different ways -- in fact, homosexuality and transgender are often seen as the same thing, as [MENTION=6799630]thallantyr[/MENTION] suggested in his excellent Roman example upthread. But whether trans people were seen as super-duper gay, as a third gender, as a sort of eunuch, as some combination of all three, or as something else entirely, the view seldom if ever lined up closely with our contemporary understanding. So in this sense it is hardly unreasonable to say that transgender identity is a new thing.

Reality being, transgender people were often treated with far more respect in the distant past, and the whole nonsense of discrimination is a relatively 'new' thing from a historical point of view (new being relative here)
On this I'm sorry to say that you're simply incorrect. People who do not conform with gender norms have been discriminated against since time immemorial. You can find examples of cultures where trans people were extended a certain understanding, but if you want to make a historical generalization like this then you can't ignore the many cultures where they were not. (And even where they were, I'd be hesitant to say that they were afforded normalcy.)

A particularly dense example of everything I've been talking about comes from the Islamic hadith:
A mukhannath ['effeminate one'] who had dyed his hands and feet with henna was brought to the Prophet. He asked: What is the matter with this man? He was told: Apostle of Allah! he affects women's get-up. So he ordered regarding him and he was banished to an-Naqi'. The people said: Apostle of Allah! should we not kill him? He said: I have been prohibited from killing people who pray.
Several things to note here. Most obviously, the people were asking to kill the mukhannath; however, Muhammad said not to, extending to this person rights as a Muslim. (Still got banished, though.) Also, the mukhannath is matter-of-factly described as a "man" and "him"; there's not even a hint of the woman-in-man's-body idea. But also also, the mukhannath might have been a man; as I noted above, homosexuality and transgender are often poorly distinguished. And finally, the mukhannath is described as a mukhannath. The Arabs had a word for people like this, a category. The category is well enough recognized that elsewhere in the hadith it is stated that mukhannathun are allowed to enter women's harems -- not because they were women, but because they were "free of physical needs" (i.e., not into the ladies), again suggesting a conceptualization with heavy elements of homosexuality and/or eunuchdom.

tl;dr: The past is complicated and usually awful.
 






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