D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

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I have no idea what was written here, so, take this in the spirit in which it is intended.

I just want to say that this thread (of many) is why I absolutely love En World. We're talking about a topic that can get people from both sides into frothing at the mouth screaming fests. This is an incredibly sensitive topic and I just want to offer a giant pat on the back to everyone here for keeping things above the belt and productive. We may not agree on things, but, it's a testament to the site that we can discuss it at length with almost no mod intervention and without even a hint of shutting down the thread.

Well done all of you.
 

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By this logic, men should also be experts on what women think because women are the gatekeepers to sex.

Um... my experience with women writers I know has been exactly the opposite. Have you really never gotten the "What would a man do in this situation?" question?

Sex doesn't have gatekeepers. It has two or more consenting participants, any of whom can say no at any time.


The extreme prevelence of the male gaze, and other male oriented phenomena, and the fact that the vast majority of popular media, advertisement, etc is either directly made by men, or directed and/or produced by men (ie, the particulars are controlled by men) means that our cultural pov treats the male perception and mindset as default. We all grow up watching, reading, listening to and being expected to sympathise and empathise with (mostly white, straight, cis) men. That has improved in a lot of media, but recently enough that we all still grew up under those conditions, unless we grew up disconnected from western popular media.

If aliens used western (and especially American) pop culture to try and understand us, women would be much more of a mystery once they actually got here and met us, than men would be.
 

I keep hearing about a "male perspective" and the "male mind" and I really really want to know just what that means. Because I'm wagering it's based on a whole lot of stereotypes and tropes and simplifications about men, rather than earnest representations of a 3-dimensional "man" as a real human being.
 

I keep hearing about a "male perspective" and the "male mind" and I really really want to know just what that means. Because I'm wagering it's based on a whole lot of stereotypes and tropes and simplifications about men, rather than earnest representations of a 3-dimensional "man" as a real human being.

They mean privilege, shidaku. They mean not having to consider your exact level of sexual attractiveness and apparent availability every time you leave the house. They mean not being expected to put aside any goals or ambitions you might have if children come along. They mean not being told that the same personality traits that in a man are necessary to advancement in a professional setting are unbecoming of your gender and unpleasant to be around. They mean having 90% of all entertainment product produced specifically for you - to cater to what the creators believe are your desires, your dreams, what turns you on. They mean the hundreds upon hundreds of little ways the world is easier if you're a man, that men never notice because they're invisible to them on account of those things having been there their whole lives.

They mean privilege, and the effects that carrying it around unknowingly have on the person with it.
 

I keep hearing about a "male perspective" and the "male mind" and I really really want to know just what that means. Because I'm wagering it's based on a whole lot of stereotypes and tropes and simplifications about men, rather than earnest representations of a 3-dimensional "man" as a real human being.

Yes, it is based on a whole lot of stereotypes and tropes and simplifications. And you know who set those up? Men.

But, really, the point about privilege has some validity. The "male mind" is the mind that hasn't really noticed what's going on around it as much as it ought.
 
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Yeah okay I'm done with this discussion.

Okay, sorry, that was not my most tactful writing ever. It falls into a classic trap of muddling the differences between accountability and responsibility. Mea culpa.
 

Sex doesn't have gatekeepers. It has two or more consenting participants, any of whom can say no at any time.
...which makes them gatekeepers. What did you think that term meant?

The extreme prevelence of the male gaze, and other male oriented phenomena, and the fact that the vast majority of popular media, advertisement, etc is either directly made by men, or directed and/or produced by men (ie, the particulars are controlled by men) means that our cultural pov treats the male perception and mindset as default. We all grow up watching, reading, listening to and being expected to sympathise and empathise with (mostly white, straight, cis) men. That has improved in a lot of media, but recently enough that we all still grew up under those conditions, unless we grew up disconnected from western popular media.
I'm not questioning this. I'm questioning [MENTION=61529]seebs[/MENTION]' claim that "women are not putting any special extra effort or research into writing men convincingly". The cultural expectation that we sympathize with male characters does not imply that women do not have to put any special extra effort into it. Indeed, the complaint about this cultural expectation, the call for more female characters, is usually based on the premise that they do. Hell, the first problem with the claim is just that it speaks of "women" (and "men") categorically, without quantification. Let me make a counterclaim that is a little more precise and, I hope, does not strike anyone as wildly radical: many women find many men to be puzzling, just like many men find many women to be puzzling. Now let me expand on that with another claim that may be a little more contentious: the people who don't find their opposite numbers puzzling are the ones who are better at looking past sex and recognizing that the same basic emotions, desires, and motivations are pretty much common to all humans. (And then there are people like me who are equally oblivious around everybody. :))

If aliens used western (and especially American) pop culture to try and understand us, women would be much more of a mystery once they actually got here and met us, than men would be.
I honestly doubt they'd notice the difference.

Do you have a dog or cat? Is it male or female? Its behaviors are informed by its sex, to be sure. But they are much, much, much more informed by the fact that it's a dog or cat. Male dogs chase squirrels; female dogs chase squirrels. Male cats scratch posts; female cats scratch posts. And so on. And there's a wide variance for individual personality, as well. Now, to the animal itself, its sex and the sex of other members of its species is a really big deal (especially if it's not spayed or neutered). But from our outside perspective... not so much. That's where alien scientists would stand with regards to us, unless like in Star Trek they bear a fantastically improbable resemblance. We notice (and even invent) differences between men and women because we're hard-wired to be hypersensitive to them. They don't because they aren't.
 
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I'm not questioning this. I'm questioning [MENTION=61529]seebs[/MENTION]' claim that "women are not putting any special extra effort or research into writing men convincingly". The cultural expectation that we sympathize with male characters does not imply that women do not have to put any special extra effort into it. Indeed, the complaint about this cultural expectation, the call for more female characters, is usually based on the premise that they do.

Let me clarify:

Women can write convincing male characters without having to do any research solely for the purpose of writing those characters -- because they have already had to do that research in order to get by reasonably well in our culture.

It's not that there is some innate quality which makes women not need to spend effort to learn how men think; it's that women are forced to spend that effort already, so they don't need to put in extra effort in order to write male characters convincingly in books. By contrast, male authors who do not specifically put in effort to learn more about how women think are really bad at writing convincing women.
 

By this logic, men should also be experts on what women think because women are the gatekeepers to sex.

This is an absolutely fascinating statement, and I don't really have a coherent response, except to observe that in general, in a reasonably healthy relationship, all the parties have veto power; to assume that one party is the "gatekeeper" and the other is not suggests some kind of fundamental imbalance which does not sound healthy at all.
 

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