D&D 5E The Sorcerer's Spells OR Do we want another magic class?

[ad_hoc]

Because 1) I didn't have to be a wizard to do those, sorcerers used to do that and they can't anymore. 2) I really prefer to play ditzy and dumb characters, 3) Really I don't want to play a character ever remotely related to books, except if it is one of those crazy loons taht have the compulsion to burn every book on sight 4) I hate the wizard class on principle, would never touch a MU or Mage ever, and being told "go play a wizard" just makes me hate them more and resent them.

What I am hearing is that you hate the Wizard so you wish the Sorcerer would just take the place of the Wizard.

It isn't very good design to have one class invalidate another one, and I am happy they didn't go that route with the Sorcerer.

I suggest for your game you houserule the Wizard into the kind of class that you want it to be.

 

[Dit464]

I personally don't think that the sorcerer needs much fixing spell wise, sure they have lost some spells as D&D changed throughout the editions but there is little we can do about that without having to homebrew everything about the class (not saying there is anything wrong with that either). The only complaints that could come to mind is that the Wild Surge only happens with a natural 1, although I haven't been able to think of a homebrewed way to make them more common without making them dangerously too frequent. And since my DM allows the Dragonborn race I find that the Draconic Bloodline is rather weird, the fact that you can be an Half-Elf Sorcerer and be resistant to lightning damage for example because you are part dragon just seems weird, I feel that this sorcerer origin just seems out of place, some characters are able to get two or three resistances very early in the campaign (1 of which is guaranteed to be your choice) I've seen several other comments complaining about the draconic bloodline having a class trait that only Dragonborn should have.

I would however like to see a new magical class, as I am tired on making gish classes to work as a fighting caster.

 

[Miladoon]

I would of liked to see the playtest sorcerer further developed and given a fighting chance before it got nuked, but I am okay with the sorcerer the way it is. I think the wild sorcerer is my favorite 5e class so far.

 

[Parmandur]

Sorcerer is great as is; no changes are needed or wanted.

 

[Vael]

I think their current spell list is fine ... except for the fact they have no unique spells. Every other caster class has something the others don't.

Dragon Sorcs should have some spells that channel the might of Dragons, like a spell to emulate a Dragon's Breath weapon, or shapeshift into a dragon. Wild Sorcerers should have some truly random spells that embody chaos. Storm Sorcerers should have access to some storm magic, whether some Druid spells, or even something unique to them.

 

[MoonSong]

What I am hearing is that you hate the Wizard so you wish the Sorcerer would just take the place of the Wizard.

It isn't very good design to have one class invalidate another one, and I am happy they didn't go that route with the Sorcerer.

I suggest for your game you houserule the Wizard into the kind of class that you want it to be.

There is a big problem when you say "houserule it" the DM is the one houseruling not the players. But notice I don't want to replace the wizard, I just want the sorcerer to work more like it used to, to have the chance to be something other than a blaster, blasting just feels empty. I don't want the wizard to be invalidated, I want the sorcerer to feel like it can create, to have a more lasting effect in the world. Giving them some invisible servants, talking ravens, shadow ponies and your own personal demiplane takes nothing away from the wizard. But not having them as a sorcerer feels like a demotion, one thing would be if those couldn't be done at all, but they can be done I just didn't need to be a wizard to do them before. Losing tactical supremacy and on top to lose access to the "real magic" -I'm sorry but 100 ways to fry a kobold doesn't feel like magic- is too much. I used to have a PC and you expect me to be happy with a calculator...

 

[Hathorym]

I've been playing around with the Sorcerer as of late and find it to be stunning. The base powers of the class are what makes it, with the archetypes just being flavor. I've even changed the Favored Soul to work more with the class' intentions:

Chosen of the Gods
At 1st level, you choose one of the cleric class’s divine domains. You add that domain’s spells for 1st-level cleric spells to the sorcerer spell list, and may take them as if they were sorcerer spells and they are considered to be sorcerer spells for you. When you reach 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th levels in the sorcerer class, you likewise gain access to your domain’s spells that become available at those levels. You are still limited by the number of spells known.

Point is, the sorcerer can really outshine the wizard in many ways and is working as intended.

 

[77IM]

I would vote for, "The current spell list is fine with origin spells being automatically known."

Basically, the expanded spell lists from the UA version of Storm Sorcerer and Favored Soul pretty much address all of my issues with the sorcerer. I'm sad they abandoned that route in the final published SCAG version of Storm Sorcerer -- I wish they had gone the other direction and included a page about adding origin spell lists to the Draconic and Wild sorcerers.

A compromise might be, "The current spell list plus origin spells added to the list, but not automatically known."

 

[Red117]

I am having a lot of fun with my sorc, currently level 9.
I do wish I could pick more non-combat spells, like some people have mentioned above.

 

[Li Shenron]

My 2cp in a nutshell:

- I wouldn't want any change to the core material, no 5.5 please. Only additions.

- As I said in the other thread, it would be nice if the Sorcerer's thematic concept of "born with magic inside" would be fully embraced, and the class was designed without access to close-form, ready-made "spells" as everybody else, but instead with access to basic powers (such as "illusion", "charm", "fire", "transmutation", "life", "teleportation", "invisibility", "summoning" etc.) and capable of using them to create flexible ad-hoc effect dynamically during the game. Unfortunately this is was too far away from the rules of magic in D&D, so it would be a major design effort, and too few people would be interested to think WotC would ever do that.

- A whole new class would be an addition that doesn't invalidate the core, but it would also compete directly with the core Sorcerer's concept. Instead, I'd be fine with a Sorcerer subclass that might explore the previous concept of flexible raw magic (presumably based on spell points, but not necessarily). But while it would be nice, it's still a fairly significant design effort as a subclass; so it might be to add new ways to represent this raw/basic approach to magical effects through new subclasses that still build on existing mechanics.

- I love the idea of Sorcerers being allowed access to any spells beyond their list. This is indeed one way to represent the fact that raw magic is inside them, and raw magic is not limited in any way.

- As an additional consideration, keep in mind that there is no more a true distinction between arcane and divine magic. There is just magic. Different spellcasters have access to different spell lists, but old ideas such as "only divine magic should be able to heal" or "only arcane magic should be able to teleport" are nonsense in 5e. The Bard is already someone with potential access to all magic, so the Sorcerer can be too.

- All these considerations do not mean that every Sorcerer should have access to every spell list. We don't need to invalidate anything core. We can simply design new Sorcerer subclasses that (1) get access to spells from other lists, just like Cleric and Druid subclasses already do, or like the Favored Soul; and (2) get additional mechanics to represent a more raw manipulation of magic, for example additional uses of the spell points pool.

- We could also always just design as many additional metamagic effects as possible, additional Sorcerer-only spells, and new Sorcerer-only feats. All these do not invalidate the PHB material, they are simply additive.