D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[Shasarak]

It's not a question of replacing anything. History is history - we can't change that or "replace" anything there. What we can do is recognize that history affects what comes after it and that many of us are living with advantages and disadvantages we didn't earn, that are ultimately caused by legacies of violence, colonization, suppression, and exploitation. And, perhaps, a little more humility, charity, and compassion are in order rather than reflexively defending unequal privileges.

I would suggest that many of us are living with advantages and disadvantages that either we or our immediate relatives did earn. Especially in places like America where a person can literally go from a penniless refuge to a millionaire.

But that is really irrelevant to the topic in any case. I just want to know more about this culture that conquered with the power of love.

 

[Sadras]

Should we? Should we ever be satisfied with our growth as individuals and as a subculture? Or should we always aim to do better, to be better?

I know which of those I prefer.

LOL, a simple 'no' would have sufficed
My last question was more of a rhetorical question. It reflected on our inability to satisfy and cater to every single 'group/type of people'.

I mean all I really want to see in comic books is a Spanish-speaking, Asian, transgender, Communist, Hindu-following, fat short-sighted, big-nosed superman who has one testicle, an inverted nipple, a belly button that points outwards and a lactose problem. Is that really too much to ask for?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Okay say WOTC goes with this suggestion:
Are the PC-obsessed equality-police roleplaying community going to statistically analyse the number of masculine/feminine/transgender/homosexuals/heterosexuals/physically or mentally handicapped/colour-skinned/religious/atheist/height-challenged/not-slimmed...etc NPCs referred to in the adventure paths and modules and compare this to a perceived acceptable reality/medium? Are we ever going to be satisfied?

How about we have any--and I mean on a regular basis, not a token--and then we can discuss or argue about whether we need to worry about keeping count, or whether it's "enough"?

 

[Sadras]

How about we have any--and I mean on a regular basis, not a token--and then we can discuss or argue about whether we need to worry about keeping count, or whether it's "enough"?

Fair enough. I was exploring an angle.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Fair enough. I was exploring an angle.

Sorry if that came across harsher than I meant. I actually have seen, "You're never going to be satisfied, so why bother doing it at all?" put forth as an argument, in spirit if not always in so many words. So it's something of a button.

 

[Sadras]

Sorry if that came across harsher than I meant. I actually have seen, "You're never going to be satisfied, so why bother doing it at all?" put forth as an argument, in spirit if not always in so many words. So it's something of a button.

No worries, your post didn't come across at all as harsh. I actually went back and read some of the earlier posts and I can empathise with both sides. My table is very much similar to @Lancelot as reflected in post #16 (congratulations on beating us in the RWC semi's, amazing team btw). I think if WOTC did explore sexuality or gender preferences within their adventures for various NPCs, it might inspire me as DM creatively.

Funny enough, I forgot that at end of last year I did include a gay villainous captain that was caught in the act with one of his juniors - it was just something that came to me while the rogue was sneaking about the keep, that I thought might make an interesting encounter and it did. Our table being very much hetero and very politically incorrect, had a good laugh about the matter. Also at the time, one of the players was roleplaying an albino bisexual half-elf nymphomaniac character rather well. Sadly she perished saving an ally two sessions later.

 

[Hussar]

/edit

That came off a lot more knee jerk than necessary. Sorry.

 

[Umbran]

And your repeated statements of "we're not supposed to go into this" while you continue to go into it read like a blatant effort at getting the last word.

Then let him have the last word. Having the last word does not get you extra bonus points.

We have asked, several times now, that the topic be kept to gaming. If you want to have a discussion on the broader culture and history, take it to the OT forum, and label it as such.

That's the third, and final, warning that will be given on the matter. The next time this thread wanders afield, expect someone to be banned or the thread closed.

(And yep, I realize I myself went astray a couple pages back - mea culpa. Let us keep to the rules from this point on, please.)

 

[seebs]

He's not. The reality is that most software engineers couldn't care less what sex you are, just how good your code is. The vast majority of software engineering occurs in large companies with large HR departments who will jump on you at the slightest hint of "Discrimination" and so there is no bias because you'd be fired long before your bias was a problem.

... I am just wondering whether you have actually ever worked professionally as a programmer, or worked with programmers much, because nothing you say here sounds anything like reality.

The whole "Women aren't welcome in tech" thing is much more narrative than it is reality, because for that to be true we have to accept that pretty much all major companies in every field are run by raging misogynists and everyone is just covering it up. Sure, if you work in some random startup it might be true, but I sincerely doubt that everything from Intel (Who donates to bring in more women) to Amazon and every company in between is filled with misogyny.

You are overlooking the significant space between "filled with raging misogyny" and "there is no bias whatsoever, everything has attained total equality".

I was once in a discussion about wages, where someone was explaining that the only reason women get paid less than men is that they are worse negotiators. He went on to explain that he himself is a hiring manager, and that he generally offers childless women about 20-30% less than he would offer a man with the same skills, because he thinks they will likely quit to have kids. That's a pretty significant gap in treatment, coming from someone who insists that there is no gap in treatment.

And I note, this has a parallel in gaming groups. If there's a couple who join a gaming group, I have seen people refer to "Steve and his girlfriend", but never to "Jane and her boyfriend". The question is always whether the girl can actually play or is just tagging along with the boyfriend, never the other way around. And I've seen cases where the girl is the serious gamer and the boy is just tagging along... But no one suggests that as a possibility, because the cultural narrative is that girls aren't real gamers.

 

[seebs]

Moving back to the main point of the thread, does anyone have any further points to make about gender/sexuality in D&D roleplaying games and the impact (or lack thereof) of WotC taking an in-text inclusive stance toward characters who may not fit the conventional pattern for either of those categories?

More specifically, by way of prompting:

1) Has anyone actually had a transgender, intersex or genderqueer character (regardless of whether the player was or was not) in their game? How did you approach the concept in your story? Case studies of respectful, dramatically interesting stories are especially welcome.

There were at least two in the last long D&D campaign I was in. One of the senior officers in the organization that employed us turned out to be a plant; apparently a female elf wizard, but actually a demon, whose body had been constructed by some kind of extremely-expensive magical thing that the demons had discovered which allowed them to create bodies for demons that could not be detected as demonic. Anyway, the wizard turned on them, but it turned out that the demon had previously been male (for whatever that means in demons), and when the high-magic equivalent of Witness Protection stepped in, they ended up moving the soul into a male body.

Also, one of the people in our group presented very androgynously, and tended to give false names, and was about 50-50 on male/female names. Ended up sort of half-dating someone, and this led to the issue of wanting to subtly hint to them which sort of junk they might encounter if things went that way. Although once you're an archmage and can cast Shapechange whenever you want, it turns out that "gender" is sort of a momentary-whim thing anyway.