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Where is the National Guard?

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Beside, what a great reason to simply the tax code.

That really isn't going to happen, not to the degree that most people think it should. Even if they cut the tax code down to just a flat tax on all income, it won't last. In a year or two congress will decide or be successfully lobbied to encourage some sort of behavior whether it's purchasing new capital assets or attending college, and the whole thing will start again.
 

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You're batting 1000 on the censor trope watchlist!

I don't know or care what it is; you're just wasting virtual ink.


The speech must incite imminent lawless action to not be protected.

So then we don't have free speech. We have free speech with limitations. Thank you for making my point for me.


Ain't free speech wonderful? Well, no, I guess you don't think so.

You guess wrong.


As for slander, that's not criminally actionable, and it's pretty hard to slander someone.

It's not that hard to slander someone. Especially in today's networked world. If someone goes on social media and posts a picture of a person along with a name and a statement that that person has herpes, or is a rapist or child molester that sounds like it would take someone maybe five minutes to do and it would definitely be slander (assuming that it wasn't true).


Now, if I allege facts that are false, I'm in trouble.
Filing a false report also has the same issues -- so long as I don't file knowingly false facts, I'm good.

But what about your freedom to say things that are untrue whenever and wherever you want without legal repercussions?

OMG!!!

Speech isn't free!!!!
 

SCOTUS disagrees, btw, and has allowed some voter ID laws to stand.

SCOTUS also gutted the Voting Rights Act despite evidence the areas covered by the increased scrutiny still generate proportionally more problems than the rest of the country. So it's not like the SCOTUS doesn't make mistakes with respect to voting rights.
 

SCOTUS also gutted the Voting Rights Act despite evidence the areas covered by the increased scrutiny still generate proportionally more problems than the rest of the country. So it's not like the SCOTUS doesn't make mistakes with respect to voting rights.

That is very true. After all, the SCOTUS is comprised of people, and people are flawed and imperfect. Fortunately, as a panel they usually make well-reasoned and well-informed decisions, but even that can't prevent them from making the occasional boner.
 

I don't know or care what it is; you're just wasting virtual ink.




So then we don't have free speech. We have free speech with limitations. Thank you for making my point for me.




You guess wrong.




It's not that hard to slander someone. Especially in today's networked world. If someone goes on social media and posts a picture of a person along with a name and a statement that that person has herpes, or is a rapist or child molester that sounds like it would take someone maybe five minutes to do and it would definitely be slander (assuming that it wasn't true).





But what about your freedom to say things that are untrue whenever and wherever you want without legal repercussions?

OMG!!!

Speech isn't free!!!!

No one ever said that there aren't some limitations on free speech, but that you wish to add more limitations. Your entire post is nothing but a false equivocation. You're implying that because free speech, as a right, has limited, then it's entirely open to more limitations. This is the censor's shtick. It's a way to implant the idea that since you don't have an absolute right to free speech, completely unrestricted, that adding more restrictions doesn't change anything and/or is a good thing. After all, if we restrict these things, the why not go further and tackle those things that really annoy me, sorry, us, right?

But the fact is that the 1st is very, very narrowly restricted. The restrictions that exist all pass strict scrutiny, which your preferred choice of removing offensiveness does not. You're making a false rhetorical argument to try to make it seem like you're not an outright censor, trying to make other people stop saying things you don't like, and that's okay because there are some limitations on free speech so there should be more (specifically, the ones you want). Such behavior ignores, of course, the fact that if such things are allowed, then the other side gets to define what's offensive when they get into power and you're suddenly in a world where you cannot speak your mind without fines or jailtime, and they don't even have to pass a new law, just redefine a few terms or add some.

I'd feel sorry for people that feel the need to censor others if they were so stupidly dangerous to a functioning democracy.
 

SCOTUS also gutted the Voting Rights Act despite evidence the areas covered by the increased scrutiny still generate proportionally more problems than the rest of the country. So it's not like the SCOTUS doesn't make mistakes with respect to voting rights.

You assert they made a wrong decision. Can you explain what decision they made and why?

Because they didn't remove any protections for people's civil rights. They removed the requirement for prior approval by the Federal government to enact state laws. Something that was questionably Constitutional to begin with. If a state passed a bad law, the remedies still exist.

Arguments for prior restraint based on nothing more than 'they might misbehave, after all, they've done it before' are poor arguments. To be completely open, I apply that to the sex offender registry, which is a tragedy of a law.
 

Ah, so it's the opinion held that instituting voter ID, like Europe does, is intended to be voter suppression?

As I already noted (and you seem to have ignored) it was stated as an intent by some of the lawmakers voting for it. So, not so much "opinion held", thank you.

SCOTUS disagrees, btw, and has allowed some voter ID laws to stand.

And in other cases (the Pennsylvania 2012 voter ID law, for example), the courts have struck them down. The Pennsylvania case didn't make it to the SCOTUS, as the Governor of Pennsylvania chose not to challenge the lower court's ruling. Perhaps because the Gov either realized he would lose the case (because there was no statistically relevant evidence of fraud in the first place to justify it) or because the relevance to the 2012 election had already gone by.

Specifically, voter ID laws suppress voting by groups who don't have easy access to the resources required to get the IDs. When, for example, the State decides to require an ID available only thorugh their DMVs, and they *close* the DMVs in a majority of minority-population (and by statistical correlation, low-income) districts, those districts are suppressed. The people can't as easily take time off work for a trip to the DMV, and may not own cars to drive themselves to the DMV in another district.

This all doubly so when the law is passed, "by coincidence", very close to election time.
 

No one ever said that there aren't some limitations on free speech, but that you wish to add more limitations.

It's not necessarily that I wish to add more limitations. Seriously, can you point to a single place where I said "saying X should be illegal," because although I did voice my distaste for racial slurs and my belief that they do absolutely nothing to further any type of constructive discourse I don't believe I've said that they should be made illegal. However, I do think that in all things we should occasionally take the time to ask ourselves and seriously consider whether or not we should simply be staying the course.



But the fact is that the 1st is very, very narrowly restricted.

While that's good it doesn't mean that some additional restrictions may not be warranted at some point. That's why we need the periodic evaluation that I mentioned above.


Also, it bears mentioning that being "offensive" is already illegal in some regards. Recall Carlin's seven words you can't say on TV. If you drop an MF in primetime TV on some channels you can expect a visit from the FCC who will hand you a hefty fine. Like all things, that bears re-evaluating periodically.
 

It's not necessarily that I wish to add more limitations. Seriously, can you point to a single place where I said "saying X should be illegal," because although I did voice my distaste for racial slurs and my belief that they do absolutely nothing to further any type of constructive discourse I don't believe I've said that they should be made illegal. However, I do think that in all things we should occasionally take the time to ask ourselves and seriously consider whether or not we should simply be staying the course.
To whit, you said:
Furthermore, the right to free speech is intended to promote the debate of ideas. It is not intended to encourage the dehumanization of people, which is the point of racial slurs and hate speech.
While engaged in replying to how you view civil liberties. That's a clear statement that you do not think the 1st Amendment covers the dehumanization of people or racial slurs and hate speech. It's a little late to start backing down and saying 'but I never said it should be illegal' when you said was that you didn't think such things should be protected by law. If you think they shouldn't be illegal and that they shouldn't be protected under law, I'm extremely unclear as to what's left. Could you illuminate the middle ground there?





While that's good it doesn't mean that some additional restrictions may not be warranted at some point. That's why we need the periodic evaluation that I mentioned above.
You were born in the wrong time. Brandeis and you would be bosom buddies. By the by, Brandeis was on the same court as the 'fire in a crowded theater' Holmes mentioned earlier, and joined Holmes in the unanimous decision that quote is part of to incarcerate some guys that said out loud that the draft was a bad thing. You see, it was considered very unpopular at the time, even offensive, to question the war effort in Europe, so they took a periodic evaluation, applied the current beliefs, and whammo, questioning the draft is jailable. Brandeis in particular said almost exactly what you just said -- that rights should be reconsidered at times to adjust for current society. You're in good company.

Also, it bears mentioning that being "offensive" is already illegal in some regards. Recall Carlin's seven words you can't say on TV. If you drop an MF in primetime TV on some channels you can expect a visit from the FCC who will hand you a hefty fine. Like all things, that bears re-evaluating periodically.
You can say those words on TV, you can't say them over government owed and licensed broadcast frequencies. You're confusing the government placing restrictions on the use of it's property with free speech. The government has some limited rights to curtail speech in some ways when it's done with government held assets. Much like it was recently determined that Texas didn't have to create a Confederate flag license plate, despite the requisite forms and money being provided, because speech on licence plates can be inferred to be government approved and Texas is under no obligation to approve of speech. However, in a similar kind of case, New York got slapped hard for restricting the advertising on the sides of busses by content, where the ruling is that since it's obvious it's advertising space, not government speech, they cannot restrict speech there based on content. They can restrict things like profanity, which is content neutral (ie, it doesn't matter what you're saying, you can't use profanity to say it, so the underlying content isn't evaluated), which is much the same jurispurdence that allows the US to restrict speech on licensed broadcast frequencies based on content-neutral rules like no profanity.

Switch to a cable channel and note that profanity is quite acceptable there. They are leasing that from the government, so the government can't restrict their speech.

It would be interesting if you'd stop and look at what you're going to say before you let go with another censorious statement unintentionally. I say unintentionally because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you just aren't aware of these things.
 


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