D&D 5E Arcana Cleric: Arcane Mastery (17th level) picks

[ghostofchristmaspast]

Hi ghostofchristmaspast,

RE: Wish, I'm not clear on what your question is. What specifically in this thread doesn't make sense? Are you saying that it doesn't make sense to take Wish? Or it doesn't make sense to take Wish?

RE: Teleport, you'd take it for the utility. Word of Recall only lets you run away. Teleport lets you go visit new places (either for fun or because you want to do scry-and-die tactics). Reverse Gravity is more of an in-combat usage. In both cases I'm clearly brainstorming for ideas, instead of advocating them as clearly superior picks, because really, once you have Wish, Teleport becomes pretty situational.

I believe my final conclusion was "I can't think of a really good reason to play an Arcana cleric instead of just a wizard."

You and Darkstar were like "it's too risky to take Wish" while Arcana clerics seem to in fact the only ones who can either by rules or "by feels" regain Wish (as I described by using the reroll part of Wish, alt. your DM/God can send you on a side quest).
This feeling of having Wish that no one can take away helps with the overall feeling of cleric - "safety" that comes with being protected by god (in exchange for loyalty and servitude ofc.).
Playing cleric is either the best or the worst as this class relies heavily on interacting with your god (the DM). It gives the class unique feeling compared to let's say wizard who has to rely solely on himself alone.
I would honestly be afraid to play cleric with stranger DM, as many of them are not ready for this kind of interaction.

 

[mellored]

The big downside of Arcana clerics is their hard to use channel divinity. Compared to a wizard who can recharge spell slots and gains their sub-classes features.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You and Darkstar were like "it's too risky to take Wish" while Arcana clerics seem to in fact the only ones who can either by rules or "by feels" regain Wish (as I described by using the reroll part of Wish, alt. your DM/God can send you on a side quest).
This feeling of having Wish that no one can take away helps with the overall feeling of cleric - "safety" that comes with being protected by god (in exchange for loyalty and servitude ofc.).
Playing cleric is either the best or the worst as this class relies heavily on interacting with your god (the DM). It gives the class unique feeling compared to let's say wizard who has to rely solely on himself alone.
I would honestly be afraid to play cleric with stranger DM, as many of them are not ready for this kind of interaction.

I'd argue the opposite: of course I'm going to take Wish. That's a no-brainer.

I don't agree about Divine Intervention being able to restore Wish if you lose it to a super-wish, but that doesn't make Wish not a great pick.

I agree that the "feel" of a cleric relies heavily on how your DM interprets the actions of a powerful NPC (your god, if any). As a DM that's actually one reason I hate clerics with gods. I hate running NPCs that solve problems for the PCs, whether it is a DMPC who kills all the monsters for them or a high-level NPC cleric who raises them from the dead whenever they are killed. I feel like it takes the spotlight off the players and is just me playing against myself, which is boring and disempowering for the players. But YMMV there obviously.

 

[ghostofchristmaspast]

I'd argue the opposite: of course I'm going to take Wish. That's a no-brainer.

I don't agree about Divine Intervention being able to restore Wish if you lose it to a super-wish, but that doesn't make Wish not a great pick.

I agree that the "feel" of a cleric relies heavily on how your DM interprets the actions of a powerful NPC (your god, if any). As a DM that's actually one reason I hate clerics with gods. I hate running NPCs that solve problems for the PCs, whether it is a DMPC who kills all the monsters for them or a high-level NPC cleric who raises them from the dead whenever they are killed. I feel like it takes the spotlight off the players and is just me playing against myself, which is boring and disempowering for the players. But YMMV there obviously.

Who am I kidding, it's all DM fiat. Every game I played so far has been DM fiat and this one is no different. I am kind of starting to loose will to play table-top as a result. I spend hours of valuable time learning by memory all the rules only to find out it's all "your DM chooses" kind of nonsense. The last game I truly enjoyed were Psionics way back when. I realize this is as off topic as it gets.

Edit:
List of disappointments (games I invested time and got questionable results back):
Pathfinder
Mage: the Awakening
DnD 4e
DnD 5e

Edit 2.0:
I will delete my account if it makes one person happy.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Who am I kidding, it's all DM fiat. Every game I played so far has been DM fiat and this one is no different. I am kind of starting to loose will to play table-top as a result. I spend hours of valuable time learning by memory all the rules only to find out it's all "your DM chooses" kind of nonsense. The last game I truly enjoyed were Psionics way back when. I realize this is as off topic as it gets.

Sounds like you've got basically two choices:

(1) Get a consistent DM and learn the rules at his table, instead of "the rules" for everyone in the world (which don't exist, especially in 5E which is designed to support multiple variants just like AD&D). Note that some DMs (like me) make rules largely by table consensus, so you may be able to influence what the rules are at that table.

(2) Become a DM and set the rules. It's not as hard as you might think it is.

The downside to #2 is that you don't get to play PCs.

There is an option #3 (Play Adventurer's League) that I don't know much about, but which might​ give you that "every DM is the same" experience you're looking for.

 

[shadowoflameth]

The way I read Wish, the cumulative 33% chance i.e. maximum of 3 times in the life of the character to do something beyond the scope of an 8th level spell. 1% left for it to work more often, but I think the intent is clear. besides, even rules the harshest possible way, for the cleric at 20th level, you could say that divine intervention made it possible to recover the 8th level utility use of wish, and the capstone of the cleric would give it 100% chance to work 1/week.

I would rule as a DM though that Wish and Divine intervention could only produce the same 'beyond' effect once. i.e. No wishing for more wishes, infinite strength or other such cheese.