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D&D 5E Next up is Fighter, what do you want from UA?

QuietBrowser

First Post
I predict that there will be a fighter who harnesses the power of the feywild, and another who is somehow linked to the death domain. Not that fighters aren't dealing out death all the time, which is what they do, after all, but something to do with necromancy and undead-ed-ness.

Not saying those are what I want to see, but a theme is beginning to emerge in these weekly UA articles, isn't it?

Ironically, there was a "deathslayer" kit for necromancers back in AD&D, which was basically a fighter/necromancer who was Geased to always attack the undead first and foremost, but who was better at defeating a specific kind of greater undead (lich, ghost, mummy, vampire). So, it's not unheard of, I guess.
 

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But while Second Wind is certainly not as strong an ability, it is not because of how it scales we should rate it.

I think it's a greatly underrated ability and the scaling doesn't need to be stronger. At 20th level, it's good for ~75 hit points over the course of a typical adventuring day. It scales at 1 hp per level per short rest, so 3 hp per level per day. The Tough feat scales at 2 hp per level, though obviously increasing your hit point maximum is stronger than a bonus-action heal.

If you really crunch the numbers with reasonable assumptions, it's better on average than the 3rd-level barbarian bear totem resistance people rave about. Maybe a typical 20th level martial takes 300 points of damage over the course of an adventuring day, and maybe 30% of that is non-bludgeoning/piercing/slashing/psychic, or about 90 points, and bear totem resistance saves half of that, or 45 points of damage. And yet it's considered a top tier ability while Second Wind and its 75 points (in every situation, with no assumptions required or strings attached) is an afterthought due to its "poor scaling." Second Wind gets no respect. :(

Anyway, more than any particular subclass concept, I'd really like to see them experiment more with Superiority Dice and "maneuvers." It's a great mechanical chassis and they should get creative and see what they can do with it.
 

Looking at it from mecanics some things might be intresting.
A subclass that uses versitile weapons, and has abilities based on if he is using one or 2 handed stance.
Maybe also a figter subclass that uses smaller weapons like dagers or hand axes and can also trow them.
 

CTurbo

Explorer
1. Slayer - The killiest killing machine.
2. Warlord - THE leader.
3. Knight - The ultimate defender.
4. Combat medic would be cool, but I'm not sure how to make it unique.
 
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Valetudo

Adventurer
It seems they are definitely going in alphabetical order, so next should be Fighter. What are you hoping for? Personally, I think that Fighter is pretty well covered, and the current subclasses are flexible enough to cover most gaps. Only thing I see missing, that someone else mentioned in the general UA speculation thread, is a Crusader 1/3 divine caster, which might be somewhat interesting.
Actually, if they did do a fighter crusader, I would prefer a noncaster version. We dont really need a pally lite.
 

Valetudo

Adventurer
The fighter subclasses we have are fine. Infact the newer ones seem to be getting weaker. Now more manuvers for the BM would be nice.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
I would love to see the battlemaster be able to spend his superiority dice on rolls that effect the other two pillars of the game.

Well, it is called the BATTLEmaster, so it makes sense that all maneuvers would revolve around that specialty. the champion has more out of combat abilities, but really, with the way 5e is built, you have the option of building up those out of combat abilities if you want via background skills and feats.

It's one of the reasons I think additional fighter subclasses would be the hardest to do. 5e does a great job already giving you options for most of the other skills/abilities that you want that aren't baked into a subclass. Like my Halfling fighter with the criminal background. No need for a roguish type fighter subclass because I already did that via the background and his skulker feat.


I think fighting styles is where the best opportunity lies. Something like a shield master, where you can throw your shield like Cpt America, with damage scaling similar to cantrips. Or maybe something where you can wield a two handed weapon in one hand for a limited time. or one where the reach of all melee weapons is increased by 5ft. Stuff like that.
 

Jago

Explorer
Looking at it from mecanics some things might be intresting.
A subclass that uses versitile weapons, and has abilities based on if he is using one or 2 handed stance.
Maybe also a figter subclass that uses smaller weapons like dagers or hand axes and can also trow them.

See, I'd like to see something in this direction. We may have the BattleMaster who excels at, well, Battle as a general concept, but what about a Weapon Master? Take the Fighting Styles or something like that to an extreme.

The only real issue I see with it is a lot of the Feats cross into that (like Polearm Mastery), but I'd think a Fighter that forsakes most weapons to only use Longswords or only use Glaives could be pretty neat (not to mention there is precedent for the Weapon Master).


The problem I have with looking at interesting, new Archetypes for the Fighter is that your Fighting Style kinda already covers what you need, and if not, Feats certainly do.
"I want to be an amazing archer, so I take Archery and the Sharpshooter Feat."
"I want to be very Swashbucklery, so I take Dueling and the Defensive Dueling feat."

And then lo, go BattleMaster, pick the maneuvers that suit what you need, and that's your "Archetype" 90% of the time. Ah well.

I do think something like an Arcane Archer would be cool, but that seems to fall under the Eldritch Knight (unless Arcane Archers can like use their Weapon Attack modifiers for their Spell Attacks, or something? But that basically means 1-stat dependency).

I keep going back to Feats and kinda figure that allowing the feats really restricts where you can go with the class.

I want to play like a Heavy Armor fighter who can just wade into battle and be super tanky and ... I'd probably just take the Heavy Armor Mastery feat. Or I want to be all Renaissancey and wear my breastplate but be dashing and sneaky and roguish with my Rapier and ... Medium Armor mastery. I am the best Halberdier in the worl-!Polearm Master. Etc.

So many previous iterations of the Fighter were based around certain pieces of kit or using certain gear in new and interesting ways, but that now seems to be the province of solely Feats. And as others have stated, I don't think the Fighter should just always be the "1/3 Caster" for every type of magic class in the game. Fighters fight, every archetype they have should be about creative or different ways to do so.




I think fighting styles is where the best opportunity lies. Something like a shield master, where you can throw your shield like Cpt America, with damage scaling similar to cantrips. Or maybe something where you can wield a two handed weapon in one hand for a limited time. or one where the reach of all melee weapons is increased by 5ft. Stuff like that.

See, this I like. Literally different styles of combat. Maybe finally getting a reason to take Duelist and not use a Shield aside from pure flavor purposes? Or Stances with a Longsword (or any other weapon) that you can shift between as a Bonus Action to start shifting your stats and mechanics in combat (Add Str to AC, don't add Ability Mod to Weapon Attack Rolls, or Gain advantage on next attack but your target can immediately use a Reaction to try and hit you, stuff like that). Really, we just need new ways to Fight, not "BattleMaster, but without the decision-making part".
 

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