D&D 5E The Fighter Problem

[Satyrn]

Will people learn to read IT IS NOT ABOUT DAMAGE BUT ABOUT UTILITY, AGENCY AND IDENTITY. The fighter sacrifices all that for supposed damage. We are not asking for more damage but for the adding of utility that was sacrificed and nothing given in return and agency which the Fighter never had due to mostly "tradition". Looking forward to someone twisting this back to wanting more damage.

Maybe I don't understand what agency means, but I feel like I have it since I can attempt any action I want. For example, my gnome battlemaster was the star of the last session's exploration bits, diving into the raging rapids to swim after the dwarf sorcerer who got swept away.

And utility? Well, no the fighter itself doesn't have much, just a couple skillls but I'm finding I'm getting a lot out of Survival and Animal Handling. (Where, weirdly, I haven't even used the Stealth, Deception and thieves tool proficiencies I got from the criminal background).

My fighter bits have provided a significant contribution to the party outside of combat.

Oh, and in combat, too. Again, last session I made generous use of pushing attack to knock the exploding mephits away from my allies.

 

[Satyrn]

2. It seems with the second update, whenever someone on my IL is quoted, it no longer shows their statement, but shows "This person is on you IL list". I LOVE that.

I'm glad the timestamps are back

 

[Zardnaar]

My answer to this issue is pretty simple: If you're playing with feats, the Fighter gets more feats than all those other classes you mention.

@Zardnaar is well aware of how powerful some feats can be. The fighter comes on-line too late? He's getting DOUBLE the number of feats than Paladin, Ranger and Barbarian at 6th level.

If Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, and Sharpshooter are so darn powerful when it comes to "fighting" ability, then the Fighter gets those faster than those other classes. If the Sentinel feat or the Shield Master feat (for grappling) is an effective means of playing the Battlefield Control or Defender role, then the fighter can get there faster than those other classes. And if fighter-types have a weakness in Wisdom checks, then the Fighter can get to the Resilient feat quicker than those other classes.

Feats are more powerful than most class abilities, and fighters get there faster.

Now if I were in charge of adding things to the game, I'd add some more martial archetypes. Fighters get more of those than most others as well (5 over the course of 20 levels, which is more than any other class and some fighter-types like Barbarian and Paladin only 0-1 of them), and simply adding more options for martial archetypes will make the Fighter a more versatile combatant by virtue of that class feature (with no errata or additional sub-classes needed). Add in a shove as a bonus action as a martial archetype. Add an extra attack if you drop a foe as a martial archetype. Add a retaliatory attack as a reaction as a martial archetype. Sure, those some other fighter-types can get those martial archetypes as well, but unlike the fighter they won't get as many of them. And that's the power of the fighter - they get more of the good stuff that fighter-types get.

I am well aware of that, Some class abilites are better than feats though, the Paladin gets his aura at 6 for example and thats way better than any feat. Feats are also optional, the other classes can also get one at 4 and complete the combo at 8 so the fighter has a very narrow window or has a 1 to hit and damage vs an extra d6 more or less all the time+ other abilities.

 

[Corwin]

Paladin gets his aura at 6 for example and thats way better than any feat.

Is that a universally true statement? Are you certain?

 

[Xeviat]

A few people mentioned that maybe the fighter would start to look more interesting if the ranger and paladin didn't have "Fighting Style". Maybe it could have been something like old Weapon Mastery in 2nd and 3rd editions. It would at least make them stand out. You want your paladin to be a better swordsman? Better take some fighter levels.

But, maybe story and flavor could be in the subclasses. What subclasses would you like to see?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Satyrn]

Oooooh...... EYE KAN DUE THIS!


The fighter problem:
Is nonexistent,
the problem?
Paladin.

the gnome in the garden
speaks his oath:
I am Vengeance.

 

[Corwin]

Ooo! I love haiku...

If the fighter sucks,
Maybe it isn't 5e?
It could just be you.

 

[Satyrn]

Well, that's harshing the vibe, ain't it?

 

[Zardnaar]

Is that a universally true statement? Are you certain?

An equivalent feat would be resilient and the aura is better than that IMHO.

A ranger gets an extra d6 more or less all the time by level 6, and if its a huinter a situational d8 or an extra attack both of which are easy enough to trigger either most rounds or every other round. Paladins being able to use bless, smites, shield of faith is also better than a feat which once again you can compare to Magic Initiate.

1 extra feat until level 14 IIRC. At best the fighter gets a feat combo up 2 levels earlier than one of the other warriors or +1 to hit and dmage (or another effect I suppose).

The other warriors are still dealing more damage for the most part and have other out of combat uses. IN the narrow case a fighter might deal more damage with that single feat the other class abilites the other classes get more than make up for it or they can take the exact same feat at level 4.

Feats like Great Wepaon master etc are often better for Paladins or rangers as the extra attack is also an extra d6 a lot of the time and/or give things like smites or colossus slayer more chances to trigger although I kind of lean towards sentinel if you're a Paladin (combo with shield of faith, 20-22 AC).

 

[Mistwell]

I am well aware of that, Some class abilites are better than feats though, the Paladin gets his aura at 6 for example and thats way better than any feat.

I disagree. Let's talk about that Aura of Protection. You mentioned earlier how many games don't really reach high levels and one complaint was the fighter coming "on-line" too late. Well, while sharing out a bonus to saves is very helpful for higher levels, it's actually a relatively rare ability in the early levels. It's coming up less at 6th level than at higher levels, don't you agree? However, you'll be using your bonus action attack with Polearm Master every round at those levels. At earlier levels, the feat (GWM, or PM, or Sharpshooter, or Sentinel, or Shield Master, or whatever) will come up way more often than Aura of Protection.

And it will even out at higher levels, but then you'll keep getting more feats at higher levels too.

Feats are also optional, the other classes can also get one at 4 and complete the combo at 8 so the fighter has a very narrow window or has a 1 to hit and damage vs an extra d6 more or less all the time+ other abilities.

Feats are optional, but you're speaking from your experience and your experience involves feats. So let's talk about the reality rather than white-room theorycrafting. The reality is your players who play fighters can access those powerful feats earlier than other fighter-types, right?

There is no "completing the combo" here. The guy with Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master probably still wants Sentinel and Resilient, right? If he likes grappling he still wants to shove as a bonus action that comes with Shield Master, right? If he's multiclassing he almost certainly wants a feat that helps with some of that other classes abilities (Warcaster, Healer, etc..) right? They're not going to run out of powerful feats by the mid-game, and nobody else can keep up with how many they get. So while others can get these, none can get as many, and that's very powerful.