D&D 5E Assumptions on Hit Points and Armor Class...

[amerigoV]

Grumpy ancient gamer here. Let me give you the answer that will really help you - just don't think about it. I was on the internet boards when the internet was not cool (yes, there was a time...) and these posts existed back then. I am sure if you go back to old Dragon Mags you can find them in the Sage. There is no satisfactory resolution. HP and AC are abstract to make it possible for normal human beings to defeat things that should kill them in a second. Its designed to be fun.

Its thinking like yours that will lead you to start posting about Falling Damage - when that fighter decides he can jump off a 50' cliff and hardly break a sweat it will really wreck your mind. Or why does a person in a small room still get a Saving Throw against Fireball. Or how does Magic Missile work vs. Mirror Image?

Just roll with it. Go kill a dragon - it will make everyone feel better.

 

[i_dont_meta]

This was really more an exercise in thinking outside of the box. Yes, I understand the D&D Sacred Cow Holy Trinity (6 Classic Attributes/AC/HP): With These, We, The Masses, Shall Not Tinker. And yes, I'm sure there ARE other games out there that complicate the hell out of things. I wouldn't know. Haven't played em. I like D&D just the way she is, but surely there's nothing wrong with poking the status quo with a big stick, right?


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[amerigoV]

This was really more an exercise in thinking outside of the box. Yes, I understand the D&D Sacred Cow Holy Trinity (6 Classic Attributes/AC/HP): With These, We, The Masses, Shall Not Tinker. And yes, I'm sure there ARE other games out there that complicate the hell out of things. I wouldn't know. Haven't played em. I like D&D just the way she is, but surely there's nothing wrong with poking the status quo with a big stick, right?

At least from my perspective- tinker all you want to make it fun. Poke at it all you want. Understanding the interactions so the rules do not break if you change it is great. But rationalizing what some of the key mechanics mean in real life terms...well, that is where it breaks and has led to fussing about it for 40 years, leading to classic discussions like how many HPs are in a Tootsie Pop? (the answer is 3, and do not let anyone tell you otherwise). I recall as a youngster (High School) we tried to break hit points into "Meat" and "Endurance" because it made sense, but it really did not help the game all the much. It just led to other things to argue about (but I had to grin when I saw Modern have something like that many years later - some stuff hits Con, rest "hp"). The simple solution would have been just to give out more Wands/Potions of Healing (we all hated playing clerics ).

 

[discosoc]

I've always just rationalized HP as a "resource" (luck, experience, etc) that allows your character to turn a fatal attack into a miss or graze in a REACTIVE way. So if someone gets "hit" with a sword and takes 15 points of damage, what probably happened was they were able to avoid it at the last second, or roll with the hit in a way that it became superficial.

Armor Class is really just a representation of how PROACTIVELY your character can avoid being damaged, usually by avoiding the attack or making sure you have stuff (armor and shield) between it and you.

The only problem is that I think most of us are in the habit of narrating combat inaccurately, so we'll make the above sword attack sound like it was a solid hit that drew blood or something, when really only the one or two hits that lead to a character dropping to zero would qualify.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Shouldn't it be that a higher level character in fact got less wounded, because they were so much more experienced, skilled, aware, lucky, etcetera? And in fact they should heal either at the same rate, or maybe even faster, because their wounds/aches/pains are each so little in comparison, since each one is such a small proportion of their overall hit point total? Wouldn't that mean that a 1st level fighter taking 8hp of damage took one hit from a sword that almost killed them, and a 10th level fighter taking 8hp just took a hard hit on their shield that bruised their arm a little, would involve such little injury that a Cure Light Wounds would in fact do more healing on a higher level character?

That is the Proportional Wound model, which is favored by many because it is intuitive and mostly makes sense. If it takes 3 damage to make a shallow cut on the upper arm of someone with 10 HP, then it should take 30 damage to make the same cut on someone with 100 HP, right? And, as you've pointed out, the one big problem is that healing works by fixed numbers rather than percentages, such that it takes the tougher character much longer (or much stronger magic) to heal an identical wound.

Personally, I prefer the Absolute Wound model, where a 3 damage hit is the same on someone with 10 HP or 100 HP. It means that it always takes the same amount of healing to fix the same severity of wound, and the only difference between the chump and the hero is that the hero doesn't die from wounds that would kill a lesser person. (I haven't quite figured out how to reconcile that with Hit Dice for healing, though.)

 

[Lanliss]

So, coming back to this. I think that AC should be basically a third health bar, and it is depleted before your Temp HP. I will stick by my earlier thought of level+1*AC to find out how much you get, as that feels like a good enough number. Recharge on a short rest for a Heroic style game, but only recharge AC on a long rest for a more gritty game. You would need a spreadsheet for quick referencing, in case someone Dons their shield. just a level:AC table should work fine. For things like a Beastshaping Druid you can say they only gain something like half of their level's AC (Rounded up), to prevent them being even tankier than they already are at low levels.

This also makes a scary high AC like a Bladesinger much less powerful, since you are no longer essentially untouchable. OTOH, it could strengthen a spell like Barkskin, if you consider that to be a grown armor type thing. A lot of different abilities and spells to consider in this...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Personally, I prefer the Absolute Wound model, where a 3 damage hit is the same on someone with 10 HP or 100 HP. It means that it always takes the same amount of healing to fix the same severity of wound, and the only difference between the chump and the hero is that the hero doesn't die from wounds that would kill a lesser person. (I haven't quite figured out how to reconcile that with Hit Dice for healing, though.)

It also lets you do fun things with scars.

DM: looking at the grizzled mercenary, you can see that he's been smashed, bashed, bitten, hacked, smitten, cursed, and tortured. From the scar patterns all over his body, this guy has probably taken thousands of HP of damage in his life. He looks you over once and then spits on your boots. "You're funny-looking for an elf," he says. What do you do?

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

So, coming back to this. I think that AC should be basically a third health bar, and it is depleted before your Temp HP. I will stick by my earlier thought of level+1*AC to find out how much you get, as that feels like a good enough number. Recharge on a short rest for a Heroic style game, but only recharge AC on a long rest for a more gritty game. You would need a spreadsheet for quick referencing, in case someone Dons their shield. just a level:AC table should work fine. For things like a Beastshaping Druid you can say they only gain something like half of their level's AC (Rounded up), to prevent them being even tankier than they already are at low levels.

This also makes a scary high AC like a Bladesinger much less powerful, since you are no longer essentially untouchable. OTOH, it could strengthen a spell like Barkskin, if you consider that to be a grown armor type thing. A lot of different abilities and spells to consider in this...

I would actually suggest treating AC like a damage threshold. If below the threshold, it's reduced by the armor absorbing the impact. Thus, better armor protects you more by reducing more damage. But if above, the attack pierced the armor and the character took the full brunt.

 

[GMMichael]

We know for a fact that, if you take damage, then you are physically injured in some way . . .

We?

I'm going to shorten the Warmaster's post down to two "words":

Because D&D.

If you don't like it, house-rule it, or grab another RPG to play. You can easily do both with the game I'm working on...

 

[Joel Spanky Gray]

You could make an argument that Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution could modify hit points. Strength is indicative of muscle power, and muscle protects vitals organs and bones. Constitution is the default, and Dexterity also reflects an ability to roll with impact and reduce the severity of injury, so a modification to hit points is logical. A possible solution is using the best of Str, Dex, or Con as a hit point modifier. There also could be feats or class abilities that allow Int, Wis, or Cha to be the hit point modifying ability too (3.5 had a feat called Mind Over Matter that replaced Con with Int).

I've also argued in my game that characters should use the higher of Dex or Con for their AC modifying stat too.