D&D 5E Whip House Rule proposal

[Cap'n Kobold]

As I read the rules, you can already trip and grapple with a whip. They're both melee attacks that you can perform against an opponent within your reach.
The whip allows you to make melee attacks, and increases your reach by 5 ft when doing so.

 

[jaelis]

As I read the rules, you can already trip and grapple with a whip. They're both melee attacks that you can perform against an opponent within your reach.
The whip allows you to make melee attacks, and increases your reach by 5 ft when doing so.

It says

The target of your grapple ... must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check,

That is indeed ambiguous about what it means by "your reach," since you have different reaches with the whip and with, say, your unarmed strikes. But the second part, saying you use your free hand, I think indicates pretty clearly that it is your reach with your hands that is relevant here. Just like you couldn't make a longsword attack at 10 feet, just because you were holding a whip in your other hand.

Specifically the whip's reach ability says "This weapon adds 5 feet to your reach when you attack with it." But the grapple rules indicate that you are not attacking with your weapon when you make a grapple check.

 

[Cutterjack]

What if any grapple related contest against a whip gets advantage?

 

[jaelis]

Just me, but I don't really see a whip being useful for grappling. I get that you can wrap it around someone, but it doesn't seem like it would be very hard for the person to escape.

 

[Cutterjack]

Just me, but I don't really see a whip being useful for grappling. I get that you can wrap it around someone, but it doesn't seem like it would be very hard for the person to escape.

I agree. That's why you get advantage when trying to end a grapple or contest a prone from grapple attempt. (See above thread)

I don't see this as being that different from Shield Master which allows you to shove prone as a bonus action every round and attack with your main weapon. You don't need to have martial weapons proficiency or a fighting style for that and you get other benefits.

 

[Sir Brennen]

This came up in another whip thread, but the weird thing about grappling with a flexible reach weapon like a whip or lasso is, while one can picture wrapping the whip around a target to prevent them from getting away, there's nothing to prevent the target from coming toward you. They're not truly grappled, then, since in one direction their speed is not zero. You almost need another condition, like Roped, or have to spell out the exact effect in the weapon description, without referring to existing conditions.

If you want to truly grapple with a reach weapon, stat up a mancatcher. (Two-handed, probably does damage if you put spikes inside, but always has with disadvantage on attacks without a feat.)

I think I would allow tripping with a whip, but, as per the Shove attack action, it's in place of a regular attack. So no weapon damage included. I'd also have the attacker use their normal attack roll, since it's still with a weapon, instead of Str (Athletics) for the contested roll. This prevents any Expertise shenanigans from a rogue, even with lower Strength.

Again, to avoid having to add caveats, it might just be better to spell it out as two specific types of contests, and not even bring the existing contests of Shove and Grapple (and the Grappled condition) into it.

One interesting side-note, the Battle Master has a Tripping maneuver, which is only resisted by Strength, (not Strength [Athletics], and not by Dexterity at all).

 

[jaelis]

I agree. That's why you get advantage when trying to end a grapple or contest a prone from grapple attempt. (See above thread)

I misunderstood your post, sorry, I see better what you were getting at.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Continuing my thoughts from previous post:

How about, to reduce complications of being grappled, we make the movement limiting property only apply to opportunity attacks (reactions) and the effect only lasting a round.

Whip. Instead of making a normal weapon attack, you may opt to hinder the movement of the target of your attack.

First, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a trip. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them. This attack deals no damage. The target of your trip must be no more than one size larger than you, and it must be within your reach. Make a weapon attack, contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use.) The target has advantage on this check if it has more than two legs. If you win the contest, the target falls prone.

Second, when you use your reaction to make an opportunity attack against a target about to leave your reach, you may attempt to stop it by wrapping the end of your whip around it. This attack deals no damage. The target must be no more than one size larger than you. Make a weapon attack, contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use.) If you win the contest, the target cannot leave your reach until the start of its next turn. The target may use its action to attack the whip (AC 10). 5 points of slashing damage will free it, allowing it to use any remaining movement it has this turn.​

Suggestions for DM improvisational rulings for trips and roping: If the target wins with a critical success, the whip is pulled out of your grasp to the target's space. On a critical success for the whip wielder, the whip also does damage to the target. Allow an exception for the opportunity attack option when someone falls past you, potentially saving them.