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D&D 5E Tensor's Disc

Caliban

Rules Monkey
My house rule only allows the adjustment of distance, so it could go backward or forward, but not side-to-side. Two wizards sitting on each others' disks could move, but only in a strait line. But even then, what's wrong with making the spell useful? It doesn't sound like anything you mentioned above breaks the game.

I didn't have a problem with it, but if I remember correctly there were whole articles written about different ways to abuse the spell. Most people never actually did it, but the power gamer nerds ruined it for the rest of us. :p

For me the biggest problem with the spell is that used to have a limited speed, so it was easy to leave it behind if you were double moving or running.
 

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snickersnax

Explorer
The coolest would be if you could designate a "puller" and make it into a chariot. It would be awesome to have a familiar pulling you around.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
This is an example of one of the downsides of D&D as a whole... because it evolved from wargaming, there have always been precise measurements and graphical interpretations given to all combat, skills, and abilities. Thus players have been trying to manipulate all the physics and math of the ruleset to their advantage over the years, and the designers have always tried to stay a step ahead. Unfortunately, that has resulted in a more "narrative" way of looking at the game usually being ignored or at least pushed towards the rear.

If you look at the spell purely narratively (like if you were seeing this spell as written in a novel with no game aspects attached), you basically have this invisible floating disc that holds hundreds of pounds of stuff for you, and you can have it follow you along as you walk away. And only the most logical reasons why it can't follow you-- like a door closes between you and the disc, or you teleport away and the disc can't... ever really come up as issues.

So there's something to be said in actually playing the game of D&D in that way... rather than trying to work out and work around game rule mechanics to justify or not justify the actions of you and the disc. After all... is there anything lost if you the PC can push the disc away from you in front of you so that the disc is leading (rather than it following along behind you) because that's what you need to happen narratively in the story? Unless you are a hard game simulationist, I don't think there is. So in my personal opinion... don't worry about it. You have a magical spell that creates a disc that can carry stuff, and you can move it around to accomplish what you need the disc to do.

EDIT TO ADD: Here's the other thing that you gain if you treat a lot of D&D's magic narratively... you can become more thematic in the same way you can in say a game like Champions. In this case... you are a Telekinetic force mage. All Tenser's Floating Disc is, is another way of using telekinesis. Yeah, the game assumes they are distinct and individual spells that do not overlap... but if you look at the ideas narratively... you have a telekinetic force wizard that can easily move small objects with no real effort (Mage Hand); can move larger objects slowly (Floating Disc); can bludgeon other creatures using telekinetic force (Eldritch Blast and/or Magic Missile); can throw up telekinetic barriers in front of them (Mage Armor, Shield); can telekinetically bend light around themselves (Invisibility); can lift themselves up into the air (Jump, Levitate, Fly); can move themselves at superhuman speeds (Phantom Steed) etc.

In Champions, if you select all these different abilities and uses and narratively treat them as from one thematic identity, you get to buy them all at a discount. Unfortunately, D&D doesn't have that, and thus it is way too easy for a spellcaster character to just take all different types of spells randomly without having a theme. Now sure, some players will build pyromancers, or necromancers, or cryomancers or whatnot... but invariably they'll also have a lot of individual non-thematic non-narratively consistent spells too, because the game doesn't prohibit it or make it worthwhile to not select them. So even a devoted pyromancer will have the ability to create a Phantasmal Force illusion, because.. why not? Which makes sense from the gameplay perspective of D&D, but doesn't so much when you think about a wizard narratively. And I sometimes think the game (or more to the point, MY game) might be occasionally better served by treating magic more thematically, rather than "every caster can take every spell" that the game allows.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
But the whole 20' requirement before it will move is stupid. It is hardly an overpowered spell. I just allow the caster to adjust the distance between 5' and 20' at will. Why not?

Not overpowered, but it is actually a fairly strong and useful spell in the right circumstances.

It gives the party an extra 500 pounds of stuff they can carry out of a dungeon with no encumbrance, basically for an extremely minor cost for a Wizard (since it is a ritual).

500 pounds is a lot of weight. My group has found several large treasures that consist of a lot of copper and silver pieces. Tensor's more or less lets them carry it all out of the dragon hoard, not just mostly the gold and more pricey stuff. It gives the PCs an option that they do not normally have in a dungeon. Who wants to have two PCs dragging the petrified Paladin out of the dungeon because they are already somewhat loaded down with gear? Who wants to lug tapestries out of the dungeon?

The duration is more of a delving issue than the extremely minor movement issue. Every 45 or so minutes, the wizard has to take out 10 minutes to cast the ritual again and one or more PCs have to move the stuff off the old disk onto the new one.

The movement issue is trivial and not worth house ruling. As a player, I don't often encounter situations where the 20 feet makes any difference whatsoever. Maybe if the wizard was walking through a town. That's a level of detail that would almost never be important in our game. My new Barbarian 5 / Wizard 5 has cast Tensor's already and I have only played him for two gaming sessions. We had a tiny die on the grid when he was in combat with the spell up. I moved the Barbarian. I moved the die. No muss. No fuss. And even if the disk would have been immobilized, 100 feet is a fairly large area in combat on the table for those of us who use grids.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
This is an example of one of the downsides of D&D as a whole... because it evolved from wargaming, there have always been precise measurements and graphical interpretations given to all combat, skills, and abilities. Thus players have been trying to manipulate all the physics and math of the ruleset to their advantage over the years, and the designers have always tried to stay a step ahead. Unfortunately, that has resulted in a more "narrative" way of looking at the game usually being ignored or at least pushed towards the rear.

Some people might consider that to be a strength of D&D.
 

Ilbranteloth

Explorer
The disk doesn't move if you are 20' or less from it. So you can turn around and walk towards it and it will just stop where it is.

But the whole 20' requirement before it will move is stupid. It is hardly an overpowered spell. I just allow the caster to adjust the distance between 5' and 20' at will. Why not?

I keep the 10' vertical limit, but I will allow it to move over liquids. So if the wizard swims across a stream someone could sit on the disk and get across without getting wet. Might as well make it at least somewhat useful.

That's exactly what my players used it for, among other things, to get to an island in the middle of a swamp. Only the bard had to wade through the mess. There's nothing in the description that says it doesn't work over water, just changes in elevation.
 

Ilbranteloth

Explorer
This is an example of one of the downsides of D&D as a whole... because it evolved from wargaming, there have always been precise measurements and graphical interpretations given to all combat, skills, and abilities. Thus players have been trying to manipulate all the physics and math of the ruleset to their advantage over the years, and the designers have always tried to stay a step ahead. Unfortunately, that has resulted in a more "narrative" way of looking at the game usually being ignored or at least pushed towards the rear.

If you look at the spell purely narratively (like if you were seeing this spell as written in a novel with no game aspects attached), you basically have this invisible floating disc that holds hundreds of pounds of stuff for you, and you can have it follow you along as you walk away. And only the most logical reasons why it can't follow you-- like a door closes between you and the disc, or you teleport away and the disc can't... ever really come up as issues.

So there's something to be said in actually playing the game of D&D in that way... rather than trying to work out and work around game rule mechanics to justify or not justify the actions of you and the disc. After all... is there anything lost if you the PC can push the disc away from you in front of you so that the disc is leading (rather than it following along behind you) because that's what you need to happen narratively in the story? Unless you are a hard game simulationist, I don't think there is. So in my personal opinion... don't worry about it. You have a magical spell that creates a disc that can carry stuff, and you can move it around to accomplish what you need the disc to do.

EDIT TO ADD: Here's the other thing that you gain if you treat a lot of D&D's magic narratively... you can become more thematic in the same way you can in say a game like Champions. In this case... you are a Telekinetic force mage. All Tenser's Floating Disc is, is another way of using telekinesis. Yeah, the game assumes they are distinct and individual spells that do not overlap... but if you look at the ideas narratively... you have a telekinetic force wizard that can easily move small objects with no real effort (Mage Hand); can move larger objects slowly (Floating Disc); can bludgeon other creatures using telekinetic force (Eldritch Blast and/or Magic Missile); can throw up telekinetic barriers in front of them (Mage Armor, Shield); can telekinetically bend light around themselves (Invisibility); can lift themselves up into the air (Jump, Levitate, Fly); can move themselves at superhuman speeds (Phantom Steed) etc.

In Champions, if you select all these different abilities and uses and narratively treat them as from one thematic identity, you get to buy them all at a discount. Unfortunately, D&D doesn't have that, and thus it is way too easy for a spellcaster character to just take all different types of spells randomly without having a theme. Now sure, some players will build pyromancers, or necromancers, or cryomancers or whatnot... but invariably they'll also have a lot of individual non-thematic non-narratively consistent spells too, because the game doesn't prohibit it or make it worthwhile to not select them. So even a devoted pyromancer will have the ability to create a Phantasmal Force illusion, because.. why not? Which makes sense from the gameplay perspective of D&D, but doesn't so much when you think about a wizard narratively. And I sometimes think the game (or more to the point, MY game) might be occasionally better served by treating magic more thematically, rather than "every caster can take every spell" that the game allows.

Yep, you'd probably like my combat and movement rules then. Is he 30 or 35 feet away? Really? In the heat of battle you can't get that extra little burst of speed so it doesn't matter?

I've separated movement from your combat turn altogether, and it's really a question of "do I have to run?" Because running takes effort, and can cause fatigue more quickly. Other than that, those little things don't really matter.

Eldritch blast? How about Bigsby's Hands?
 

Satyrn

First Post
Thanks. These explanations help a lot. Still 20' so annoying. Its hard to park the disc next to a hoard to load it up in a small room or to unload in it a small room. You could have a 40' walk (there and back) just to pile treasure on or take it off. I guess 5E updated to get more exercise for wizards.
For this, I would suggest adding a line to the spell saying the caster can use an action to direct the disk to a spot within 20' of him.

I guess your DM might require you research it as a new spell, but even then there ought to be no way he'd make it higher than 1st level - although perhaps even then you'd want to up it to a 2nd level spell if you can crank the duration up 24 hours.

And you get to name the spell after yourself!
 

Satyrn

First Post
The coolest would be if you could designate a "puller" and make it into a chariot. It would be awesome to have a familiar pulling you around.

Okay. We're starting to pile on enough things to justify Snickersnax's Mobile Platform as an awesome 2nd level spell!
 

pogre

Legend
Okay. We're starting to pile on enough things to justify Snickersnax's Mobile Platform as an awesome 2nd level spell!

We need a Disc of Tzeentch spell!
Tzeentch_Chaos_Lord_Disc.jpg
 

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