D&D 5E Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room

[Satyrn]

Nope - it seems the cost proportion between short and long rest is about right. Remember short rests are important for hit point recovery as well.

I was wondering. My experience so far is that the only reason my group tends to short rest is to reset features.

 

[OB1]

This is essentially what I do except instead of EPs I award the party bonus gp equal in value to 1 magic item of their level as extra treasure each level. So a 7th level party would get 5000 gp extra spread among the 2 full adventuring days of encounters that I have for them to gain a new level. Then because two full adventuring days should provide 2 long rests and 4 short rests, i have each long rest cost 1500 gp and each short rest cost 500 gp. So if they take the expected amount of rests they have neither gained or lost any loot as compared to the original system. (The money is actually used to buy crystals that restore their powers and hp - rest is no longer about bandages and time.)

In essence the treasure is spread as per your EP division between med/hard/deadly. But this way if they want to rest more, they can - but its gonna cost them - overly cautious players will soon find their stock of treasure and magic items being rapidly depleted - conversely if they are agressive and rest less than expected they will have extra money left over for goodies.

I do the same thing re raise dead - the spell at L7 would cost 5k in crystals.

Overall, as a guideline, I award each player 1 magic item every 3 levels, and also 1 magic item equivalent (actually 2 magic item equivalents counting the extra rest coin outlined above) in coin/gems every level for the group in total (of course I spread this stuff among the encounters). So at 7th level the group would get 10,000 coin gems and 1/3 of them would get a magic item. This puts the players more in control of managing their resources, spending it as desired on raise dead, rest, and magic items.

Also this system allows the players to recover after a harder than expected encounter, albeit at a cost, thereby helping smooth over the occasionally easier or more difficult (DM oops lol) adventuring periods.

Sounds like a good solution for your game. Curious as to what you do if they run out of gold and crystals? Are they just stuck? That's why I added in the possibility to take very long safe rests to recharge, though I'm assuming that would be too story based for your preferred style of play.

 

[cmad1977]

I was wondering. My experience so far is that the only reason my group tends to short rest is to reset features.

No one ever stops to blow off a few hit dice? It's not a regular thing but it's not uncommon for someone to heal themselves some before moving on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Satyrn]

No one ever stops to blow off a few hit dice? It's not a regular thing but it's not uncommon for someone to heal themselves some before moving on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's really very uncommon. If it wasn't for me (the gnome battlemaster) and the guy playing the warlock pushing for short rest to regain our superiority dice and spell slots, I'm not sure we'd ever take short rests.

 

[Hussar]

What's that? Oh......Big DM (errrr....Empowered DM) can just wave his magic wand and make up some crap about how they cant rest there, on the way there, or on the way back?
Or who needs Big Challenge anyway when Big Story is so cool?
Or News Alert - you DM Light and Big Challenge peeps LOST the edition wars (LOSERS!) so who cares about you and your stinkin' elephant anyway lol?????

It's not about waving the magic wand. It's about actually trying to resolve the issue. There are several solutions that have been proposed here and every single one of them gets waved off.

Solution 1 - Timed Adventures

Ok, I get that this one is problematic. It doesn't make sense that every adventure is on the clock. But, you can certainly have some adventure on the clock, no? So, for those adventures where it does make sense to have a countdown clock, the Elephant in the Room is no longer a problem.

So, right out of the chute, we've got a percentage of adventures where this isn't an issue.

Solution 2 - Extended Encounters

This one would solve a LOT of the issues. Break up those honking big single encounters into a few smaller ones. If you manage to have 3 encounters before any rests, the party is in for a serious kicking. It foils all the force multiplier/nova tactics that parties can have. And it's very easy to implement. Either take your fixed encounters and split them up during adventure design (easily enough done) and/or adjust your random encounter tables so that instead of the "one and only one" random encounter that occurs, you string 1-5 random encounters spread out with tens of minutes between them. Creating rationales for the encounters is generally pretty easy - Encounter 1 is random. Encounter 2 is attracted by the noise of Encounter 1. Encounter 3 is following the blood trail your party just left after cleaning its weapons and whatnot. So on and so forth.

There, poof, another percentage of issues resolved.

Solution 3 - New Mechanics

Likely this would be needed for fixed encounters. You'd need to drastically up the firepower of the critters. Probably to the point of adding Legendary to every single monster. That would largely solve most of the problems - the critters now get enough actions in the combat to be a major threat and Legendary Saves means they won't get shut down very easily.

There, there's 3 solutions that you could implement RIGHT NOW. None of them require a lot of work and they all in combination, resolve the issues.

So, I have to ask again, what's the actual problem here. The issue is brought up, solutions have been offered. Isn't that largely the end of the issue?

 

[clearstream]

It's not about waving the magic wand. It's about actually trying to resolve the issue. There are several solutions that have been proposed here and every single one of them gets waved off.

Solution 1 - Timed Adventures

Ok, I get that this one is problematic. It doesn't make sense that every adventure is on the clock. But, you can certainly have some adventure on the clock, no? So, for those adventures where it does make sense to have a countdown clock, the Elephant in the Room is no longer a problem.

So, right out of the chute, we've got a percentage of adventures where this isn't an issue.

Solution 2 - Extended Encounters

This one would solve a LOT of the issues. Break up those honking big single encounters into a few smaller ones. If you manage to have 3 encounters before any rests, the party is in for a serious kicking. It foils all the force multiplier/nova tactics that parties can have. And it's very easy to implement. Either take your fixed encounters and split them up during adventure design (easily enough done) and/or adjust your random encounter tables so that instead of the "one and only one" random encounter that occurs, you string 1-5 random encounters spread out with tens of minutes between them. Creating rationales for the encounters is generally pretty easy - Encounter 1 is random. Encounter 2 is attracted by the noise of Encounter 1. Encounter 3 is following the blood trail your party just left after cleaning its weapons and whatnot. So on and so forth.

There, poof, another percentage of issues resolved.

Solution 3 - New Mechanics

Likely this would be needed for fixed encounters. You'd need to drastically up the firepower of the critters. Probably to the point of adding Legendary to every single monster. That would largely solve most of the problems - the critters now get enough actions in the combat to be a major threat and Legendary Saves means they won't get shut down very easily.

There, there's 3 solutions that you could implement RIGHT NOW. None of them require a lot of work and they all in combination, resolve the issues.

So, I have to ask again, what's the actual problem here. The issue is brought up, solutions have been offered. Isn't that largely the end of the issue?

Solution 4, make long rests meaningfully long against your campaign scale. Which has the official support the OP appears to require, in the DMG.

 

[Hussar]

Solution 4, make long rests meaningfully long against your campaign scale. Which has the official support the OP appears to require, in the DMG.

Oh, hey, I certainly didn't mean for my list to be exhaustive. There's all sorts of other solutions out there. Futzing about with the resting rules certainly does it as well. Make long rests something you can only do in safety and comfort (such as in town) and you resolve a lot of issues as well.

IOW, there are MANY solutions to the "Elephant in the Room" that exist right now. Why rewrite the Monster Manual and the PHB to support a specific playstyle that is already given support in the existing rules?

 

[CapnZapp]

It's not about waving the magic wand. It's about actually trying to resolve the issue. There are several solutions that have been proposed here and every single one of them gets waved off.

Solution 1 - Timed Adventures

Ok, I get that this one is problematic. It doesn't make sense that every adventure is on the clock. But, you can certainly have some adventure on the clock, no? So, for those adventures where it does make sense to have a countdown clock, the Elephant in the Room is no longer a problem.

So, right out of the chute, we've got a percentage of adventures where this isn't an issue.

Solution 2 - Extended Encounters

This one would solve a LOT of the issues. Break up those honking big single encounters into a few smaller ones. If you manage to have 3 encounters before any rests, the party is in for a serious kicking. It foils all the force multiplier/nova tactics that parties can have. And it's very easy to implement. Either take your fixed encounters and split them up during adventure design (easily enough done) and/or adjust your random encounter tables so that instead of the "one and only one" random encounter that occurs, you string 1-5 random encounters spread out with tens of minutes between them. Creating rationales for the encounters is generally pretty easy - Encounter 1 is random. Encounter 2 is attracted by the noise of Encounter 1. Encounter 3 is following the blood trail your party just left after cleaning its weapons and whatnot. So on and so forth.

There, poof, another percentage of issues resolved.

Solution 3 - New Mechanics

Likely this would be needed for fixed encounters. You'd need to drastically up the firepower of the critters. Probably to the point of adding Legendary to every single monster. That would largely solve most of the problems - the critters now get enough actions in the combat to be a major threat and Legendary Saves means they won't get shut down very easily.

There, there's 3 solutions that you could implement RIGHT NOW. None of them require a lot of work and they all in combination, resolve the issues.

So, I have to ask again, what's the actual problem here. The issue is brought up, solutions have been offered. Isn't that largely the end of the issue?

Show us
a) published adventures implementing - and showcasing - these solutions, and
b) official (though perhaps variant) rules that empower DMs to consider this style of playing D&D official and mainstream

But you're right. The simple fact we've gotten through to you is perhaps enough for this thread. The gods should know how rare that is, and how many previous posters still steadfastly refuse to even see an elephant anywhere.

Thanks

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Imaro]

It's really very uncommon. If it wasn't for me (the gnome battlemaster) and the guy playing the warlock pushing for short rest to regain our superiority dice and spell slots, I'm not sure we'd ever take short rests.

Can I ask what level your characters are. Currently my group just hit 4th but it's pretty common for one or more members to need a short rest not just for abilities but also for hit point recovery... I'm wondering if maybe this changes as they get into the higher levels?

 

[Hussar]

Show us
a) published adventures implementing - and showcasing - these solutions, and
b) official (though perhaps variant) rules that empower DMs to consider this style of playing D&D official and mainstream

But you're right. The simple fact we've gotten through to you is perhaps enough for this thread. The gods should know how rare that is, and how many previous posters still steadfastly refuse to even see an elephant anywhere.

Thanks

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Thing is, no one in this thread appears to be denying that high level 5e has issues. I think pretty much everyone agrees with you. But, then, everyone in this thread is probably a pretty experienced DM with pretty experienced players. Which is not really the baseline for WotC modules. It can't be, really. They're not expecting groups that have played for years who can squeeze out every possible advantage. That's not who they are writing for.

But, be that as it may, there's a bit of a problem with your question. High level adventures? Well, since CoS ended at 10th, Out of the Abyss ends at 15th, Storm Kings Thunder taps out at 11th, as does Tomb of Annihilation, so, really, that's how they're fixing the problem - by avoiding it entirely.

Basically, at the end of the day, I think WotC has largely washed their hands of high level adventures. You want to play in the mid to late double digit levels? Go right ahead, but, you're pretty much on your own.