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D&D 5E Should a D&D 5e DM read the DMG and PHB?

I'm not sure I even get how he thought he was DMing a D&D game. I mean you have to actually know SOMETHING about the game to run an adventure, let alone a campaign.

As has been said, he needs to, at the very least, read the basic rules and basic DM guide, but if he's planning on running many games, he should invest a little more effort in actually, you know, learning the game.

I mean I play Warhammer 40k, too, and I can't imagine someone trying to play a game without reading the rules and just making it up as they go. The (free) core rules for the new edition of 40k are only about 8 pages, but you still need to understand how a full turn works to be able to play. It's no different for D&D, and even more for someone who is going to DM, the general rules are a must. Then if he wants to houserule from there, that's fine.
 

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A good DM requires two things.

1. An excellent understanding of the basic rules and how the game's logic works.
2. A creative mind that can weave a story.

Three things:

3) The ability to balance the various personalities at the table, to ensure the game is fun for everyone there.

But that's a nitpick. To the OP I would echo the advice give up-thread:

A) Get out - this guy isn't a good D&D DM, and isn't going to become one.
B) To the thread title: a DM can probably get away with reading just the PHB and/or Basic, though reading the DMG and MM are definitely desirable. But reading the PHB and/or Basic really is essential.

(I suppose you could also manage on just the rulebook from the Starter Set, though I doubt it would take you very far.)
 

It sounds like he just wants to tell everyone a story rather than play D&D.

The tip off is scoffing at the published adventures (though refusing to use any resources/read the books is also a big one). Some people feel that using resources takes the creativity out of the game. Most of the time that is just code for them writing a bad novel and telling it to the players in the guise of a game.

As has been said, no gaming is better than bad gaming. Sounds like you should find another group or just play without him. If you really do want to continue I suggest picking up the starter set and DMing it yourself for the group.

Maybe he will see that the creativity of D&D comes from what arises out of the foundations. The choices everyone makes to overcome challenges and the resulting consequences create the story as the party goes along. It should be a collaborative effort.

On the subject of rolling for ability checks - Often characters do either succeed or fail at tasks without rolling ability checks. Ability checks are only called for when the outcome is in doubt and there is a meaningful consequence for failure.
 

Yeah, I remember DMs like this when I was young.

He's just a control freak with a way-too-high opinion of himself.

It happens.

Do him a favor, and tell him that you're looking for a game that's actually a game, and leave. Or, just leave. Either way will be better for you, and the rest is his responsibility.
 

It is possible to DM without digging through the DMG for sure, I DMed for my current group for about a month before I picked up a copy of 5e DMG (I do have the DMG for 3rd edition and 4e, although I only really skimmed through the 3rd edition one prior to running my first games)
You will want to at least read a portion of the PHB, character options can be left out, if you absolutely don't want to read it and can trust your players to be honest

And thank you for making my day better, I was losing confidence as the last couple sessions had people spacing out, although it was most likely because I had to run my games in two languages as one of the players speaks a different language from the rest (he speaks english, the rest of my players speak mandarin) and that had been causing problems, I don't want to tell the guy that speaks only english to find another table as he is my best friend, I invited him knowing that it would mean running the game in two languages, however it turned out more disruptive than i imagined it would. I still have not found a pace and flow to tell the story without causing part of the table to have a long downtime, and sometimes I have to act as a translator when they wish to plan together. Reading your post, I realized that even though I am running the game in two languages, I am still far from being the worst, which kinda makes me feel better.

Final note, seriously, dump your DM, or get someone else to DM it, he won't get any better at what he is doing at this rate, he isn't willing to learn and he isn't willing to put in the effort to build a system from scratch, this is probably as good as he is going to get
 

Yeah, IME most of the the issues you mention are definitely not inherently bad; GM not reading the DMG, very few combats, GM referring to a player for rules advice, etc. Great games that are fun for the entire table can be run that feature those elements. IMO it sounds like there are a few things happening that really ruin games;

#1, The GM doesn't actually like the ruleset. This sucks. Sure some GMs are better at hiding/dealing with this, but resentment seems to seep out and poison the experience more often than not. It can ruin the experience when a player doesn't like the system, but with the GM it is much worse.

#2, Mismatched expectations. There is nothing wrong with a game where you don't roll dice, or you don't run combats, or any other uncommon preference/style as long as people are having fun. If the GM is going to run a game only loosely based on 5e rules (which some live-plays do for instance) the players should be made aware of this and judge for themselves if that style is for them.

#3, GM isn't interested in "improving" their game ie; not seeking out feedback or at least listening to feedback they get, not trying to "read the room", etc.

That's how I see it. If everyone is "in" the game and not resenting the choice of system, everybody is more or less on the same page about the type of game, and the GM is trying to make the game better, then 9 times out of 10 it goes well regardless of the details.
 

Okay... there's a lot to unpack here. Some of it might be relevant to the DM being poor and some just a mismatch between player style and DM style.

He had said he had DM'd before, but I later learned it was for FATE Core, not 5e, and I think it was only once. He also said he had trouble keeping his group together because of player disinterest.
A good DM can get their start in any edition of game. Cutting your teeth and running FATE is fine and can lead to a good D&D campaign, albeit one with a potentially more story focused feel. Being a DM is as much about the story, presenting the setting, and managing the players.

I was also initially a little surprised when he said he didn't have a copy of the PHB or DMG. He said it was because "they change the rules so much it's pointless to buy anything", but I also got the impression that he was just completely broke and couldn't afford them.
How old is the DM?
This sounds much more like a older edition weary DM complaint. One who has seen the books come and go two or three times.

Once we started playing, it was clear this guy hadn't read much of the PHB at all, and I learned later that he outright refuses to read the DMG (saying it just has stuff about the planes, how useless), and even scoffs at the idea that anyone would run one of the WotC published campaigns.
As others have mentioned, the DMG is basically a big book of optional rules. While there are a few pages on running the game and being a good DM, it sounds like this DM might need Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering more. Or Geek & Sundry's Game Master Tips. As the later is a video series it might be an easier sell (and segues nicely to your DM as they have seen Critical Role. You can pitch it as a way to be more like Matt Mercer since he is the initial host).

Do you need to read the PHB and know the rules? Not really. It helps to know the basics of the game, but if the players know their own powers that's fine. And if one person at the table knows the rules well enough to adjudicate, that's okay too, freeing the DM to manage the story and everything else.

He used some D&D wiki when helping create some of players' characters, but he didn't even realize the content wasn't even for 5e
That's a big red exclamation mark. D&D Wiki is basically a giant pit people who only half know the rules and content just shotgun ideas into.
(In fairness, 3e and 5e can be close enough in presentation that you could mistake them. Much like 1e and 2e. Although in terms of actual design they're kilometres apart.)

For about the first 3 months, we practically never rolled dice and very rarely fought things. Want to do something? "Yes, you do that" or "no, you can't".
*shrug*
That's neither good nor bad. That's just the story he was telling. You don't need to roll dice for everything, especially of the DC is low enough that it's something your character should succeed at.
How often and long do you play? Was that three short sessions or 10 long ones?

One NPC we fought, a boss-type of character, was literally invulnerable -- we'd whack him and he'd just take it with no damage, not speaking or anything. Other fights we've been in were so ridiculously stacked against us, we'd spend 2 or more hours fighting a fight that we knew we were going to lose, or we'd aggro some characters that had AC so high we couldn't hit them at level 2 or so, but if we ran away they would just reset like some kind of MMORPG AI. One NPC he designed to ambush and kidnap us with special abilities that made him seem like god, but with faerie fire, magic missile, and 5 PCs chasing after him, even his god-mode NPC went down relatively easily (I think he just had no idea how to design combat).
This, however, is a bad sign.

He designed an island as a sandbox kind of environment with maybe like 5 or so locations in it that we can all get to in about a day's travel or less. The island is mostly desolate, so there's not even a lot going on. The one town is tiny with a store and no plot elements there. We occasionally fight random encounters that he comes up with, but they are frankly just a waste of time -- they die in one round or two at the most. We've had maybe like 1 or 2 challenging fights in 5 months.

There're a few quests that we are ostensibly doing, but he doesn't use simple things like "okay, here's a plot hook that leads you somewhere". There're no tables he rolls on, he doesn't use CR to figure out encounter difficulty, his NPCs are extremely unhelpful, our group has no real reason to be together, and the lore of his world (future apocalypse) doesn't make much sense with high fantasy characters who are half-orc, aasimar, high elf, and forest gnomes. We seem totally out of place but no NPC seems to notice.
This feels more like a disconnect between what your expectations are of the game (plot hooks and pregenerated stories) and the DM's style. A wide open sandbox can be a fun game. I'm half running one myself, with the "plot" essentially being the lives of the players and what they decide to do rather than something I'm foisting on them.

But, from some of the other points, it does sound like he's a little rougher in his execution.

I recently introduced him to Critical Role and I think that is honestly the first D&D game besides ours he's ever seen. He even remarked afterwards that he felt insecure about his own campaign after watching it after seeing how different our game is from theirs. I don't think he realizes just how bad he is, and he seems resistant to 5e resources intended to help people like him get better.
In fairness, I'm an experienced gamer with a couple decades of Dungeon Mastering experience, and Critical Role makes me feel insecure at times.

Forwarding a few more D&D games might also be a good idea. There are a bunch on the D&D feed. There's Dice, Camera, Action, the two Maze Arcana games, and Dragon Friends. Or something like Girls, Guts, Glory. One of which might be less intimidating. Really, showing him a few different styles of DM and different ways of playing might do more than showing him just Critical Role.

I've been carrying the group in terms of encouraging we roll using our skills for things, or using a rule from the PHB when it would apply, and he just sits back and lets us do all the rules lawyering, waiting for us to tell him how to run the game.
Which can work fine. I've been in multiple games where one player knows the rules better than the GM and is the designated "rules monkey", adjudicating rulings and looking up the answers to questions so the Dungeon Master can keep the game running.
And I've run a few games where I've known the system a little less than the players and had to turn to them for clarifications.


Looking at everything, I agree with the others that say you should move on to a new game. Partially because the DM has his weaknesses and seems unwilling to work towards improving as a DM, which is not a good sign.
But mostly because what you want from the game seems to be very different from what the DM wants from the game and the type of campaign they seem interested in running. And that's going to be an issue even if they learn the rules and become better at handling combats and conflicts. In fact, if they do get a better handle of the rules, it will just augment your perceptions of the tonal differences between your expectations and their presentation.
 

Look I'll be honest: I read the first paragraph of your post. In hindsight you now see all the red flags popping up in just that initial meeting, while I may have given the guy a single session or two to prove my wrong, from that information alone I'd have been running for the hills.

Now, I'll also be honest: I've skimmed the 5E PHB, DMG, MM and the other splat books that have come out. It's not substantially different from previous editions, but my memory is not encyclopedic. Even if I read the books from cover to cover, I still wouldn't retain half the information and I usually look things up when I have questions about a class feature, a background or a feat/spell whatever when I need to. There are some elements I do differently. I apply some variant rules and not others. I have a little homebrew.

These are all, IMO, reasonable expectations going into a group, every DM has those (unless you're playing in AL, which is then literally by the book).

So yes, a DM should not be talking out of their rump when running a game. But I also wouldn't hold it against a DM to have not read the PHB or DMG or both cover to cover, or honestly even own the DMG, since IMO, the DM for this edition seems to be more of a workbook than a handbook.
 

Into the Woods

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