D&D 5E Balancing Full Casters with Non-Casters

[Sunseeker]

The balance now is longer fights (more rounds, not more IRL time) and more fights per day. Fighters keep on fighting. Casters run out of spells. If you run few or short combats, casters win.

 

[Wiseblood]

My game group normally will not get past 10th level in a campaign, but now that we are staring down that reality my group is complaining that full casters (Wizard, Cleric, Druid) are going to warp the game. I can't say that I disagree, I have always felt like the D&D classes were playing in two different games; medieval combat movie and magic-users warp reality. Fourth edition was the only times things felt balanced, but that system had its own issues. Compounding this issue; our previous campaign we played using Adventures in Middle Earth, which has no casters, and had a blast.

My question is, how would you propose to either reign in full casters or buff up non-casters to make things feel more balanced in 5e?

I don't think it is really a casters vs. non-casters problem. It is really a casters vs. setting/reality problem.

For instance, a band of fighters attack a dragon hit points are lost or flanking maneuvers employed until one side is eliminated, flees, or surrenders.

A band of casters attack a dragon. The dragon must immediately contend with enemies that can attack, summon reinforcements, conceal their position, neutralize its greatest offensive abilities, shape the battlefield, flee, (with almost perfect success rates) and/or fire off a salvo of victory condition effects that you get one shot to aviod....yep I think that covers it.

 

[g4m3kn1ght]

That was what I was trying to get at with the original post and what irks the players in question. Once casters get beyond, say, 3rd level spells, they it is like the casters are scrapping the inside of the 4th wall. I am inclined to agree with them, but I have been gaming with some of these guys for 20+ years now and we all cut our teeth watching stuff like Conan, Willow, and Lord of the Rings. The media equivalent for higher level D&D casters seems more reminiscent of Loonie Toons than any other property I can think of, where you have comically large explosions, houses appearing from nowhere, teleportation, and magic doors.

 

[Harzel]

If you think that spells of level 4 and higher are problematic, then go through them and either cull them or reduce their effectiveness.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

If that’s the issue, I’d recommend keeping time constraints tight in your adventures.

Another option to consider, if you don't think this is sufficient, is upping the requirements for a spell slot refresh. You can't just camp and long rest to get them back -- maybe you have to return to your laboratory or sanctum, or make an expensive offering to your god, or what have you.

 

[Rossbert]

If the high level reality bending is not in the genre you want, try limiting your game to half-casters (and maybe non-lore bards, I feel like they might not get too weird, I don't remember their high-level spells). That way you get some caster, but it cuts off before the effects get too big.

As for limiting what casters do, one of the most overlooked rules seems to that you can only benefit from one long rest in a 24-hour period, that can help check the blow all my spells and sleep play style.

 

[Stalker0]

The best advice I give can for caster balance at high levels, which is the same advice period for high level adventuring....keep the time pressure on at all times.

If casters get time to rest, they will dominate. But without that, there high level tools get spent quickly. It makes those spells feel like scalpels instead of hammers you just bash everything with.


The party is not going to save the world. They are going to save the world....in 6 hours. That's the model I find is most effective for high level gaming.

 

[cthulhu42]

I'm running a 14th level group right now, wizard, cleric, barbarian and rogue. So far everybody still shines. I'd say give it a chance before you bring out the nerf bat.

Yeah, the wizard can do some stuff that the others can't, but he's a wizard! And his damage output against a single foe isn't anywhere near what the barbarian can do. I think a lot of times the non casters get satisfaction just in keeping the wizard alive.

And a lot of this comes down to role playing. Go to the Story Hour forum and read Tales of Wyre (seriously, it's amazing). It's a 3.5 game that goes into the epic levels and the wizard is off the charts, power wise. But the paladin and rogue in the story are so wonderfully played that they lose no spotlight at all.

In my current game, the wizards player is a bit of an introvert, so the story largely revolves around the rogue and barbarian, both of whom are played by people who command more of the spotlight. And that's the stuff that we'll remember years from now, not who had more mechanical utility.

 

[Horwath]

More fights per day.

MORE.

If your casters get away with "5 minute workday" everyday, they will be powerfull.

when 13th level wizard is left with 3d10 fireblast per round, he is a whimp next to the 3×(1d10+5) archer.

 

[Sleepy Walker]

I'm in an adventuring group which just got to level 11 recently. I have not seen many balance problems.

As what Cthulhu said, I personally gain satisfaction taking the heat off of casters who have no real chance in close combat. I also gain a large amount of satisfaction crippling high level spell casters with my Ranger's small 2nd level silence spell, then grappling them in place or otherwise putting the hurt on with my melee attacks. Admittedly this is a half caster, but the topic was high level spells affecting the game.

I will say a couple magic users have paid the price for overextending with their magic. It can lead to some very sticky situations if your flight magic suddenly stops working, say, halfway over a pit of poisoned spikes.