D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

[BookBarbarian]

I wouldn't be too concerned about feats vs styles. But I do agree that it conflicts with Tavern Brawler. I don't much like TB, that could be revised too, but I guess we're looking for a minimal construction here.

How about when you have a free hand and succeed on a grapple or shove, you also deal your weapon damage die? (Without any bonuses.)

Yeah, that sounds pretty good.

Or maybe something like adding the weapons damage die to the Athletics check to Grapple? (Edit: that might be too strong so Weapon die roll divided by 2?)

Anyway I like the direction your going.

 

[jaelis]

Yeah, that sounds pretty good.

Or maybe something like adding the weapons damage die to the Athletics check to Grapple? (Edit: that might be too strong so Weapon die roll divided by 2?)

Anyway I like the direction your going.

Yeah... don't know if I could stomach adding a damage die to a check roll, just seems too weird for me. Plus you can already get a very good grapple check if you pick up Athletics expertise. Stacking more on that seems either a waste or just too uber. I kind of like dealing damage since it is unique. It's kind of cool too since it would be useful in situations where an opponent has really high AC but you can succeed on a grapple.

(Side note: I've already modified the Grappler feat to grant expertise, I don't think you should have to multiclass for it.)

 

[BookBarbarian]

Yeah... don't know if I could stomach adding a damage die to a check roll, just seems too weird for me. Plus you can already get a very good grapple check if you pick up Athletics expertise. Stacking more on that seems either a waste or just too uber. I kind of like dealing damage since it is unique. It's kind of cool too since it would be useful in situations where an opponent has really high AC but you can succeed on a grapple.

(Side note: I've already modified the Grappler feat to grant expertise, I don't think you should have to multiclass for it.)

That's a pretty good houserule. Without it the Prodigy feat is the only way to get both a fighting style and expertise without multi-classing (except College of Swords).

 

[jaelis]

That's a pretty good houserule. Without it the Prodigy feat is the only way to get both a fighting style and expertise without multi-classing (except College of Swords).

Yes, the publication of Prodigy made me feel fine about my Grappler change. Plus Grappler is crap as written. If you are interested:

Grappler
You have the skills to hold your own in close-quarters fighting.

- If you are proficient in Athletics, you can apply double your proficiency bonus to Strength (Athletics) checks made to initiate, maintain, or escape a grapple. If you are proficient in Acrobatics, you can apply double your proficiency bonus to Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks made to escape a grapple.

- You can attempt to grapple or shove a creature instead of making a melee attack when the creature provokes an opportunity attack from you.

- When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can make a special melee attack to attempt to damage a creature you are grappling. If you are able to make multiple attacks with the attack action, this replaces one of them. Make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (target’s choice). If you succeed, the target takes bludgeoning damage equal to 1d4 plus your Strength modifier.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Yes, the publication of Prodigy made me feel fine about my Grappler change. Plus Grappler is crap as written.

I find it provides a way to have advantage against targets you grapple without providing disadvantage to your party's ranged attackers (the downside to Grapple+Prone) but that's a very minor benefit for the cost of an entire feat.

So yeah, pretty crap.

 

[jaelis]

I find it provides a way to have advantage against targets you grapple without providing disadvantage to your party's ranged attackers (the downside to Grapple+Prone, but that's a very minor benefit for the cost of an entire feat.

So yeah, pretty crap.

I agree it is not useless... I would take it if offered for free. But as a feat? Maybe not.

 

[Hriston]

What's the alternative to that assumption? Would you assume something like a 3d6 distribution for both Strength and Dex, such that some elves would have more Strength than Dex, even though they all add +2 to the latter value?

Yes. Even if you posit a more modest distribution of 3d{2,3,3,4,4,5}, more than 14% of elves would have STR greater than DEX, and another nearly 12% would have STR equal to DEX. That's more than a quarter of the population.

Based on actual observations, how many elves have you seen with higher Strength than Dexterity?

I'm not aware that I've ever seen an elf.

 

[werecorpse]

How do you figure it's misnamed?
This is a weapon found in a fictional world, not ours. So yes, in the FR etc there IS such a thing as a Longsword. It measures about xxxx inches long, weighs x, does x damage, & is for some reason the most commonly produced/enchanted form of sword.
It just happens to look similar to assorted weapons from our real world.

Because all of the fictional high and wood elves (who are naturally dexterous) who do not have martial weapon training and also all of the fictional rogues who cannot sneak attack with non-finesse melee weapons are trained in the use of this fictional weapon. So a solution to the issue of fictional Longswords is to make the fiction of them consistent and sensible with the fiction of the non martially trained elves and the class of rogues.

 

[jaelis]

Can someone explain why it is troublesome that rogue are trained with longswords, but not that they are trained with greatclubs? Is it just that longswords are called out?

 

[snickersnax]

Which, as I alluded to in an earlier post, steps on the toes of Tavern Brawler.

"Tavern brawler: Accustomed to rough-and-tumble fighting using whatever weapons happen to be at hand..."

Its funny how "whatever weapons happen to be at hand" doesn't include a longsword....???

Maybe Tavern brawler just needs to be expanded to include what the description already says it does.