D&D 5E Alignment, Good Fun and Unnecessary Evil

[iserith]

The D&D 5e rules are pretty clear about alignment as being something that "broadly describes" morals and attitudes and "typical behavior." It goes on to say "individuals might vary significantly... and few people are perfectly and consistently faithful to the precepts of their alignment."

Since few mechanics interact with alignment in D&D 5e, it is likely that only house rules will make alignment important. I know in most campaigns, I don't care about it except as it may relate to a character's Ideal, which is often tied to either the moral or attitude part of the alignment descriptor. In my Planescape campaign, however, I made alignment its own Ideal using the verbiage given in the D&D 5e rules. Players can therefore play to this personal characteristic in order to gain Inspiration. So when the LN wizard member of the Fraternity of Order "acts in accordance with law, tradition, or personal codes," the player of said wizard can claim Inspiration. This mechanic helps to underscore some important element of a Planescape game (in my view).

I find offering encouragement to play to a specific characteristic, when it's actually important to the campaign theme, is a good way to use alignment. Otherwise, it fades to background as a way for players to think about how they want to portray their characters. It's not a straitjacket nor a club for the DM to use to get the PCs to do one thing or another. After all, it's the player who decides how his or her character acts, and what he or she thinks and says.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I like the idea that alignment exists in D&D world (because it's such a distinctively D&D-y concept) but it's entirely subjective, one system of ethical categorisation amongst many and only of interest to those of a philosophical bent. The great mass of common people certainly do think in terms of good and evil, and almost all consider themselves to be good, but they don't use or even know about the nine alignment system. Alignment languages were developed by scholars of the Nine Alignment school but they haven't caught on.

EDIT: Adventurers have latched on to the Nine Alignment system as a justification to kill 'monsters' and take their stuff. Some adventurers claim to possess supernatural powers that allow them to detect alignment. By using these powers they can determine that orcs, goblins, and other sentient humanoid beings that live in remote areas are evil. Even the children.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

In 1e/HM4/2e, I use Alignment as it was intended; a static measurement for behaviour. With 3e/PF/5e, I pretty much think of Alignment as a "description" of a characters general attitude towards others.

With regard to 1e/HM4/2e, there are consequences for when/if a character ends up slipping into some other alignment...so Alignment is static (meaning it doesn't matter what the PC/Creature believes is good or evil, there are absolutes in the multiverse that define X is Good, Y is Evil, Z is Neutral, etc).

With 3e/PF/5e, there are virtually zero consequences for when/if a character ends up slipping into some other alignment... so Alignment isn't static, in fact it's reduced to the equivalent of "He's a meany poo-poo head!". If a characters family believes that you should start beating your child at age 5 through age 12, every other day, because it "will build strong character and perseverance through adversity". Each member in that family and all the families in that society could still have "Neutral Good" written on their sheets. It doesn't matter. Alignment is pointless other than a 'general idea/description'.

Needless to say, 1e+ games, I use Alignment and it's consequences absolutely. In 3e+ games, I don't even care if it's written down on your sheet.

Too bad about 3e+, imho. I always viewed Alignment as a good tool to use to keep the PC's from going all "...but now...with this power...I can CONQUER THE WORLD! Muhahahahah!!!". Because lets face it, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You get a half-dozen 18th level PC's who decide they want to take over a city...there isn't much anyone can do about it. But if they have "NG" on their sheet, and Alignment has teeth, that decision can make a difference (especially when you loose a level and it takes 6 moths of actual play time to regain that level). Without those actual game-mechanic consequences (coupled with ridiculously fast level gains), there is literally nothing stopping a group from "going pirate" if they have a bad day and want to take out their frustrations on the campaign (...or the DM...).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[TheSword]

Use it for whatever you want. I use it as an identification.

- chosen by the player and can be changed by the player
- tells the DM in shorthand roughly how the PC feels about some concepts and maybe how they react
- enables the DM to reward role play that matches alignment
- allows the group to limit some activity, like PVP or murderising by forbidding evil alignments
- useful as a shorthand for how NPCs and monsters may react in a given circumstance.
- is the motive power for the great wheel.

I don’t think it has to be any more or less important than your group wants it to be. I certainly wouldn’t get my knickers in a twist over it.

That said, it does have its uses and I normally use it in most campaigns.

 

[Draegn]

I view alignment as a code of conduct. It defines what a character is willing or unwilling to do. For some classes it is easier to view than others. A good warlord does not use child soldiers, an evil one does not care. Yet this is still shaded by fields of grey. What if the action is a last ditch defence?

 

[Coroc]

Do not make the mistake in intermingling modern ethics with a game which is based upon a medieval Moral Background.

Child soldiers are evil? Well the Knights started their training at the age of 6 or so and were fullfledged soldiers at the Age of 12. And did go to war. Evil? No, the opposite, it was considered honorful and good.

Corporal punishment evil? Well back then they had mirror punishment meaning the punishment should mirror the deed and prevent Repetition of the deed and create fear in wannabe criminals to commit that crime. Nowaddays we would say that this is somewhat eveil for civilised People. Back then it was considered absolutely lawful good that murderers got beheaded and thieves mutilated.

Mercy? The vikings did have no word for it, truth! Were they all chaotic evil? Surely not, they had laws for their Society.

Slavery? Totally normal during most Ages and in many cultures, no one would be considered evil for keeping slaves (There you go your real life comparisons can go odd ways!)

Killing heretics to protect the faith? Back then the ultimate good deed, more important than acts of charity.

Etc. etc.

 

[MNblockhead]

I keep alignment in my D&D and would be sorely disappointed if it were removed from the game, for the same reason I cling to multiple forms of polyhedral dice and six ability scores: nostalgia and tradition.

D&D's magic isn't that it is the most perfectly reasoned game system on the market. It is its ballast of shared tradition. Nerdy arguments over alignment are--to me--are part of the game's culture.

I think 5e is right to make it part of the game, part of your character's description, but keep the mechanical implications light.

If using the mainstream D&D cosmology, alignment is tied to actual cosmic factions. This gives mechanical weight to alignment. The factions you are aligned with will determine which gods you are in favor of, which warlock patrons you have access to, which social groups you can readily join.

Alignment can also be treated as a social code or a dominant philosophical worldview, but that makes alignment-restricted magic items to make less sense.

 

[Draegn]

Do not make the mistake in intermingling modern ethics with a game which is based upon a medieval Moral Background.

Child soldiers are evil? Well the Knights started their training at the age of 6 or so and were fullfledged soldiers at the Age of 12. And did go to war. Evil? No, the opposite, it was considered honorful and good.

Corporal punishment evil? Well back then they had mirror punishment meaning the punishment should mirror the deed and prevent Repetition of the deed and create fear in wannabe criminals to commit that crime. Nowaddays we would say that this is somewhat eveil for civilised People. Back then it was considered absolutely lawful good that murderers got beheaded and thieves mutilated.

Mercy? The vikings did have no word for it, truth! Were they all chaotic evil? Surely not, they had laws for their Society.

Slavery? Totally normal during most Ages and in many cultures, no one would be considered evil for keeping slaves (There you go your real life comparisons can go odd ways!)

Killing heretics to protect the faith? Back then the ultimate good deed, more important than acts of charity.

Etc. etc.

This game and every other game are written from the viewpoint of the norms and morals of which the authors live in. If you doubt this then kindly explain why the words demons and devils were changed during the height of American televangelism. The 1st to 2nd edition changes.

http://www.yorku.ca/inpar/language/English-Old_Norse.pdf

You may find the entry miskunn on pg 94 of interest.

 

[DreamsAndPixies]

Do not make the mistake in intermingling modern ethics with a game which is based upon a medieval Moral Background.

I disagree with that — there is no way to separate your day-to-day ethics with how we view the in-game world's morality. And you might try of course to play that medieval moral, but are you really? Are your characters fine with torturing cats and burning them alive, since that used to be a game in certain medieval cities? But whether you are right or not, doesn't change the fact that Alignment is unneeded to play a black&white game, or a game that tries to play by a medieval moral background. You do not need to be told the alignment of actions to figure where they are morally in the moral landscape.

If using the mainstream D&D cosmology, alignment is tied to actual cosmic factions. This gives mechanical weight to alignment. The factions you are aligned with will determine which gods you are in favor of, which warlock patrons you have access to, which social groups you can readily join.

A point I adress in the article. This makes alignment a faction mechanic, not a moral mechanic. In fact, it can't solve moral disputes that would arise at the edge of those cosmic factions. What matters is what factions mean and your allegiance to them. Hence, once you know what each faction is about, you only need to know their name. Otherwise I understand when you say that you love the discussions about Alignment. That's another point in my article. ALignment has a heavy memetic weight, and it's also good fun when used for memes. But as a mechanic, it is an unnecessary evil.

 

[Coroc]

[MENTION=6940607]DreamsAndPixies[/MENTION] XP for the second half of your posting on the factions with which i agree.

On your reply to my post:
Please do not missunderstand me, unless you are pretty weird you do not want to roleplay (as a playerr) torturing cats in every detail. Otoh such Thing occurring in a plague ridden e.g. Ravenloft Domain with People superstitious of witchcraft is totally fair game and would well be in my scope of Scenarios.
This does depend of course on whether you DM for mature People and whether these People have the stomach for gory descriptions.

And again do not get me wrong, i love cats too.

Check out Shemeskas planescape story hour on this forum he has scenarios (in his real gaming sessions from his past group) which surpass Stephen Kings worst book passages in gruesome detail. For People who can handle this, it is like watching a Horror movie and being the hero who want to right these wrongs and get some extra motivation.

That is one reason why as a DM i never allow evil alignment with a good or neutral Party, and often that means e.g. i do not allow drow as PC because they are exceptionally cruel in their natural Habitat and it does not make sense to me other than some drow who grew up in a total different Society than his own would be radically oposite of his peoples normal Lifestyle.