Revised Ranger update

[ClaytonCross]

Ok, I'll cop to maybe missing stuff from earlier posts, but, is the issue on the table right now pet survivability? Is that right?

So, here are three solutions:

1. Give pets max HP.

2. Give pets Resistance to all forms of damage. The bonding of the ranger and the pet makes the pet more durable.

3. The pet and the ranger share a single pool of HP. Yes, that means that a Beast Master ranger gets a bunch more HP, but, he's also twice as vulnerable to attacks. Keeps the pet alive and done.

What more do we really need?

I really like #3, it has cost to it but I would also be willing to say normal pet HP to 1 then drains the Ranger to but not below 1, and vise versa so your ranger and pet can keep each other alive, or both die to a single AoE damage over load, but you will not see the ranger or beast drop just because the other drops. Very close but that means the pet could take one last over flow attack without killing the ranger. This link also means healing the Ranger above 1 effectively heals the pet/companion. It would also make since that they share damage resistances so I wouldn't want #2 in that case. #1 might me negligible at later levels since the ranger is likely providing the majority of the health, So I am kind of indifferent there.

 

[Yunru]

Was asleep and missed a bunch D:

I did mean under-stating (or perhaps uselessness), thank you.

I like the idea of animal companions gaining HD, but I do tend to think of a beastmaster companion that is, at best, 1 HD lower than same-leveled PC to be way too close to approaching the level of survivability as another PC. I'm not a fan of the revised beastmaster for a number of reasons, but that's one of them.

See, I don't see that as a problem. It's not like survivability is the be-all-end-all. They're still not going to perform nearly on par as a PC offensively unless the beastmaster uses their action to.

How did they fail? Drizzt's "animal companion" is not a Beastmaster companion, it's the result of a magical item that is available to all PCs, including Beastmaster Rangers. Drizzt is not a Beastmaster, and is not therefore not the ideal upon which the archetype should be judged on. And even if you did, you can just say:

"Look, I built a drow Beastmaster Ranger with a pair of scimitars and an onyx figurine of wondrous power. He's just like Drizzt, plus he gets another animal companion!"

Because based on doesn't mean "exactly the same."
People look at Dritz with his animal and go "wow, if only I could do that all the time."
Or just came from WoW and so already know how cool it is to have pets fight with you.

We agree Basic rules are fair game for anyone to use. So, you expressed a desire to have a "fighting" animal companion, by which you mean direct attacking rather than using the help action or something like that. OK, so what exactly is wrong with these two animal companions for that purpose? Both can attack at a decent attack bonus (+6), do decent damage (GPS does an average of 17 on failed save or 11.75 on a successful; FS does 8.5 damage with no save), and do it without being subject to return attack most of the time (one has reach with a 30 move and the other has flyby attack with a 60 fly). And even if they do get a return attack, they both have decent ACs as well (14). So can we agree these are not bad options for what you're looking for?

Well the biggest problem is they're both snakes. Which is great and all but... they're both snakes. Real open to options there, might as well call it the Snakemaster subclass

And if having your animal companion be a DPR boosting meat shield is what you want out of it, you should have to pay for that with other class features.

... Then explain to me why the level 11 feature straight up says "use you animal companion as a DPR boost" (despite not having the survivability to do so)?

Umm, pardon me if I'm wrong here, but, doesn't that just mean that you should play the Revised Ranger Beastmaster? Doesn't that resolve the issues of hit dice and survivability?

So... again... isn't this problem already fixed? Why continue to bitch about the PHB ranger when the solution is already available? Or is there some issue with the revised beast master that I'm missing?

Well let's see. For one, it's not official, so no, the problem's not fixed. For two, the Revised Ranger Beastmaster comes with the horrible Revised Ranger. And for three, the Revised Beastmaster seems a little too strong. So typical UA problems. Not official, too powerful.

 

[ad_hoc]

If the beast dying is the issue then just don't have the beast die when they hit 0.

 

[Eubani]

How far in helping with companion survival does allowing Hit Dice and Death saves go?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

The relationship of Driz'zt to the Ranger class is very loose.

Is there a popular fictional character for whom the relationship to the Ranger class is not loose?

I ask in all seriousness, because this is the huge conceptual problem with the D&D ranger as it currently exists. Fan of Aragorn, Chingachgook, the Green Arrow, Jon Snow, or Katniss Everdeen? The advice always seems to be to play something other than a ranger. And maybe, maybe you can dismiss all those characters as belonging to different settings and so not relevant to this game - I think that's myopic, but let's grant it for the sake of argument. Driz'zt, though, was written into a D&D universe explicitly as a D&D ranger. If even he is better modeled with another class now, then what the hell is going on with the ranger? Who is it for?

 

[Eric V]

Power wise, there is no problem: the Beastmaster can contribute just fine if played to type. Unfortunately, the type WotC is not what many people wanted.

"...if played to type."

1) What "type" is that?

2) Does it contribute as well as the other Ranger subclasses?

 

[Parmandur]

"...if played to type."

1) What "type" is that?

2) Does it contribute as well as the other Ranger subclasses?

As discussed extensively in this thread, using the pet the way the designers intended. Now, did they make a misstep with theit intention versus player expectations? Probably. Doesn't mean the subclass doesn't work.

The other Subclasses are less difficult to use, certainly. Pet classes are always going to be more fiddley, particularly when the ideal strategy runs counterintuitive to someone's role-playing intentions (see again, Laura Bailey's concern for Trinkets safety).

 

[Yunru]

As discussed extensively in this thread, using the pet the way the designers intended. Now, did they make a misstep with theit intention versus player expectations? Probably. Doesn't mean the subclass doesn't work.

The claimed way is false. "Help and retreat" is in direct contradiction to the level 11 feature.

 

[Parmandur]

The claimed way is false. "Help and retreat" is in direct contradiction to the level 11 feature.

People use the pet successfully: it isn't another PC, certainly, but used properly the subclass is fine.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Is there a popular fictional character for whom the relationship to the Ranger class is not loose?

Hmm. Geralt of Rivia is pretty tight. Uses a smattering of Spells, wilderness know how, alchemical skills, and combat training to hunt monsters beyond the capabilities of other folk whether in urban or wild environs.

I could emulate that quite well with a 5e Ranger. (still I'm excited for the Witcher TTRPG)

I ask in all seriousness, because this is the huge conceptual problem with the D&D ranger as it currently exists. Fan of Aragorn, Chingachgook, the Green Arrow, Jon Snow, or Katniss Everdeen? The advice always seems to be to play something other than a ranger. And maybe, maybe you can dismiss all those characters as belonging to different settings and so not relevant to this game - I think that's myopic, but let's grant it for the sake of argument.

Very true. When the broad concept of ranger is "Best person to have around in the wilderness" there is bound to be some of this.

IDriz'zt, though, was written into a D&D universe explicitly as a D&D ranger. If even he is better modeled with another class now, then what the hell is going on with the ranger?

Even in his stats from the 3E FRCS he had more levels in Fighter than Ranger.

Who is it for?

A fine question indeed.