D&D 5E Lets Talk about Medium Armor

[S'mon]

I find it works well. I also run 5e Primeval Thule which has AC 16 bronze cuirass medium armour, it seems slightly overpowered.

 

[Zardnaar]

A light Cleric with a Dex 14 as their secondary stat to a maxed Wisdom can do fine with medium armor. Their AC will be higher than the Dex-based light armor wearer through level 8, and equal to that PC thereafter, without ever devoting a single resource to AC beyond that Dex 14 (except for some gold to buy the armor, if they don't find it during adventuring).

I know light clerics can make medium armor work over say a valor bard or death cleric. Assuming default array.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Lets see, I like to play Barbarians, strength Rangers, strength Scout Fighters, and am keen on trying out the Battlesmith.

Medium Armor all the way baby.

 

[DND_Reborn]

This is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous arguments we've had here on ENWorld... worrying about a single point of Armor Class at some higher level of the game with some strained set of circumstances all in an effort to do what? Change the armor table by adding in a new medium armor, just so the chart is somehow "balanced?"

You've got to be kidding me.

{snip}

So if you want to add a new armor to the chart, then just do it already. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking it's ever going to actually matter.

LOL! Obviously the OP cares, people responding care (well, mostly) and many want to help or better understand the problem as the OP sees it. Considering a couple people gave him some XP for the OP, they might think there is something to the issue and be interested in the discussion.

Do I care about a single point of AC, not often, but I am certainly not going to berate those who do. I think medium armors are fine as is, but we house-ruled the max dex +3 for medium and max dex +1 for heavy armor just because it made more sense to us. Not out of any sense of balance, more out of how effective dex can be when wearing those armors as we see it.

I find it more silly that you bothered posting your rant and are following the thread at all. If you don't care, why are you bothering? I mean, seriously, just close your browser or click a link and all of this will go away. I promise.

 

[DEFCON 1]

LOL! Obviously the OP cares, people responding care (well, mostly) and many want to help or better understand the problem as the OP sees it. Considering a couple people gave him some XP for the OP, they might think there is something to the issue and be interested in the discussion.

Do I care about a single point of AC, not often, but I am certainly not going to berate those who do. I think medium armors are fine as is, but we house-ruled the max dex +3 for medium and max dex +1 for heavy armor just because it made more sense to us. Not out of any sense of balance, more out of how effective dex can be when wearing those armors as we see it.

I find it more silly that you bothered posting your rant and are following the thread at all. If you don't care, why are you bothering? I mean, seriously, just close your browser or click a link and all of this will go away. I promise.

I care because I don't want folks who come into ENWorld thinking that this is what D&D is supposed to be about... nitpicking over stupid little +1s here and there. There's a *reason* 5E made it a point to stop making the rules about ooh! Get a bonus +1 over here, get a +1 bonus over there, worrying about making sure you wring these gosh darned stones completely dry of every drop of blood you can find.

I would have though this would have been completely obvious. The 5E game is a direct result of the inanity of certain parts of both 3E AND 4E-- it got rid of searching for all these little bonuses or penalties that people did in 3E... and it got rid of the unbelievably nitpicky "balance" of 4E where people got all up in arms about a feat like Weapon Expertise where it was "required" to have to maintain the game's "balance", while also ticking everyone off BECAUSE it was "required" and thus players had to lose one of their precious feat slots to take it.

I was rolling my eyes at those people 10 years ago and telling them "If you need it that badly then just give it to yourselves already!" and now here it is a full decade later and nothing has changed. People still wondering and asking for general consensus if they should fix their own game.

The answer is 'Yes'. Fix it. We should have learned this lesson 10 years ago but apparently it didn't stick. So I'm here again tell you its all right, while also telling other folks "This isn't really what the 5E game is supposed to be about, so don't take these "lessons" to heart."

 

[DND_Reborn]

I care because I don't want folks who come into ENWorld thinking that this is what D&D is supposed to be about... nitpicking over stupid little +1s here and there. There's a *reason* 5E made it a point to stop making the rules about ooh! Get a bonus +1 over here, get a +1 bonus over there, worrying about making sure you wring these gosh darned stones completely dry of every drop of blood you can find.

I would have though this would have been completely obvious. The 5E game is a direct result of the inanity of certain parts of both 3E AND 4E-- it got rid of searching for all these little bonuses or penalties that people did in 3E... and it got rid of the unbelievably nitpicky "balance" of 4E where people got all up in arms about a feat like Weapon Expertise where it was "required" to have to maintain the game's "balance", while also ticking everyone off BECAUSE it was "required" and thus players had to lose one of their precious feat slots to take it.

I was rolling my eyes at those people 10 years ago and telling them "If you need it that badly then just give it to yourselves already!" and now here it is a full decade later and nothing has changed. People still wondering and asking for general consensus if they should fix their own game.

The answer is 'Yes'. Fix it. We should have learned this lesson 10 years ago but apparently it didn't stick. So I'm here again tell you its all right, while also telling other folks "This isn't really what the 5E game is supposed to be about, so don't take these "lessons" to heart."

That's great, and a much better way of expressing it. I get the frustration--I experience it whenever a new edition comes out. But we always have new people coming in (thankfully) and for them, this isn't the same old issue coming up. And for some people, the +1 nitpicking is what they want in their D&D. But there are a lot of threads I don't find interest in, so I don't post to them.

Personally, I don't think armors should be balanced in terms of AC capability. Weight, cost, disadvantage on stealth, etc. are all also factors in determining which armor is best suited for which character. But if someone wants AC balance as well, I will offer what help I can, and then move on.

 

[Zardnaar]

The AC shouldn't be the same IMHO.

Light tops out AC 17, medium 18,heavy 19. Even then that's the good armors.
Light AC11 to 13, medium 14 to 16, heavy17-19.

A variant armor module could be done. Crap armor could be one low so chainmail AC16 but it's heavy. Full plate AC 18+1 Dex bonus., Half plate 17+2 dex.

Something like that. 5Es easy u suppose but the armor is annoying.

 

[Xeviat]

For those who want a "fix", how would you rather see it done?

A) keep the two tracks of medium armors, add a 3rd armor to each track so it can be upgraded the same as light and heavy (harder because we'd need to decide on which armors).
B) Condense medium armor into one track that all have stealth penalties so that there are two upgrades? (Bad because it potentially hurts medium armor characters who care about stealth).

I'm not entirely sure about changing medium to +3 max Dex and heavy to +1 max Dex. A 16 Dex is expensive, and that change would only benefit medium armored Dex builds (ranger? Some bards?).

 

[5ekyu]

For those who want a "fix", how would you rather see it done?

A) keep the two tracks of medium armors, add a 3rd armor to each track so it can be upgraded the same as light and heavy (harder because we'd need to decide on which armors).
B) Condense medium armor into one track that all have stealth penalties so that there are two upgrades? (Bad because it potentially hurts medium armor characters who care about stealth).

I'm not entirely sure about changing medium to +3 max Dex and heavy to +1 max Dex. A 16 Dex is expensive, and that change would only benefit medium armored Dex builds (ranger? Some bards?).

Assign an AC value by level. Let the choices in armor snd dex be cosmetic.

I mean, if the goal is all roads lead to the same results, then just simplify it so they can spend time on choices that matter.

 

[DND_Reborn]

For those who want a "fix", how would you rather see it done?

A) keep the two tracks of medium armors, add a 3rd armor to each track so it can be upgraded the same as light and heavy (harder because we'd need to decide on which armors).
B) Condense medium armor into one track that all have stealth penalties so that there are two upgrades? (Bad because it potentially hurts medium armor characters who care about stealth).

I'm not entirely sure about changing medium to +3 max Dex and heavy to +1 max Dex. A 16 Dex is expensive, and that change would only benefit medium armored Dex builds (ranger? Some bards?).

Let look at these "tracks" for medium armor

The no disadvantage track:

1. Hide (12)
2. Chain shirt (13)
3. Breastplate (14)

And the disadvantage track:

1. Scale mail (14)
2. Halfplate (15)

Compared to Light armors (only 3) and heavy (only 4), medium armors already comprise the majority of options with 5 total in the stealth vs. non-stealth groups.

From what you have said, you are looking to add a 4th option, 4. New armor type (15), to the no disadvantage track that puts in on par with Halfplate. This appeals to those who want Stealth but aren't heavily invested DEX. I don't see that group being very large. Usually if you care about stealth, you invest in DEX. Sure, 16 is high but you would gain not only benefits in +1 to AC, but also Initiative, ranged attacks, DEX saves, and Stealth checks; all things which most stealth-conscious characters would probably want.


The problem with anything like this is NO ONE will every take the Halfplate. If you could get the same AC but without disadvantage on Stealth, why wouldn't you? That's why I find the Max DEX +3 a more elegant and easier to implement solution. The armors are good enough IMO, what makes those High-DEX-Light-Armor builds slightly edge them out IS the DEX after all.