D&D 5E 5e Sorcerer versus Wizard, which is better?

[DM-Rocco]

Gnome is the way to go for wizard because of the Intelligence bonus (the Fatbeard in me still thinks gnomes should only be illusionists, but that's my problem). The +2 to Intelligence isn't huge, but over the course of an adventuring career (or even a few sessions) a +1 to hit on spell attacks and a 5% better chance of enemies failing their saves will add up.

Second place would be high elves with a +1 Int and +2 Sex (for AC). The extra cantrip also gives you some flexibility.

For feats I love Spell Sniper. You get a damage-dealing cantrip and double the range of all attack-roll spells and ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover. The Lucky feat is also a great one. If you choose the Diviner subclass, the Portent ability can be fun for you and infuriating for the DM.

Ooo, I definitely want a +2 Sex bonus, lol .

I did look at the Gnome and I hate Gnomes, but that is my problem...still, a +2 INT bonus is nothing to dismiss...maybe a could be a really tall almost human-sized Gnome.

I was thinking variant human for the feat. The problem as I see it would then to be to add +1 to INT and have to waste a feat for a +1 to INT somewhere else. So if I went human I would consider taking Lucky or Alert (who doesn't love a +5 to initiative?) Then I would want to use Resilient to get the Dex to 20 and get proficiency on Dex saves and again on INT, but the saves bonus would be wasted so maybe Observant or something. Of course I could use the +1/+1 to two different ability scores, but then I don't get the cool save bonus.

 

[DM-Rocco]

For feats, if focusing on battlefield control, you really want Alert as early as possible. If going debuffs with saves, probably just boost intelligence before taking any feats, but the usual recommendation of Resilient CON or a dip in fighter would be good (starting at 10th, I think I'd take Resilient over War Caster); Alert is good there, too, but can wait longer. And you may as well take Lucky at some point.

So unless you're specializing in spells without saving throws, you'll want 2x INT boost (assuming a race with at least a +1), Resilient CON, Alert, and Lucky, in some order. If you're going to pick spells that don't depend as much on INT, and/or you are going variant human, you could add War Caster to double up on concentration buffs. If you don't want to take 1st level in Fighter, you could go Hobgoblin so you qualify for Moderately Armored and can carry around a shield.

If the variant winged tiefling is on the table, take it and run. Or, I guess, fly.

I have to see if he'll go for the tiefling, that is on my list. I don't get hit a ton because I am rather good at positioning myself away from danger, or currently, I am using Darkness with devil sight to avoid danger, but that will change.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Metamagic is good, ritual casting is good, how can I have both?

Oh, yeah, the Ritual Caster feat FTW!

I currently have one feat for the sorcerer I am playing and it is ritual caster. So worth it, but I think I'm going Wizard for the spell selection, just need to narrow it down to Diviner, Illusionist, Lore Master, evoker (although I am shying away from this) or Enchanter.

 

[DM-Rocco]

If sorcerers get sorcery points on short rest mechanics we could have this debate.

Well, technically, right now I am playing a 2 Warlock/6 Sorcerer Drow Elf, so I can convert spell points into slots and gain limited Warlock spell slots back to convert into more sorcerer points, but the process is slow and the DM and party doesn't like to take short rests for some reason, frustrating.

 

[Esker]

I currently have one feat for the sorcerer I am playing and it is ritual caster. So worth it, but I think I'm going Wizard for the spell selection, just need to narrow it down to Diviner, Illusionist, Lore Master, evoker (although I am shying away from this) or Enchanter.

If you don't want to specialize as much and just want a solid wizard that does a bit of everything, consider War Magic. It's one of those subclasses that is described in a way that doesn't really fit with what it's good for: Ignore Power Surge; it's crappy, but Tactical Wit, Durable Magic, and Arcane Deflection are mechanically really strong (not as much fun as Portent, but...). It's basically a free Alert feat that stacks with the Alert feat, a free Shield that stacks with Shield proficiency, and a free pseudo-Resilient CON that stacks with CON save proficiency.

 

[Blue]

Can you give us some criteria for what "better" means to you? Or at least what role of caster you plan on playing?

If you are doing a lot of buffing, Sorcerer's Twin Spell is exceedingly hard to beat. Two people under Greater Invisibility for instance.

If you are looking at flexibility the wizard being able to prepare daily and from a larger pool is unmatched.

If your party lacks healing or could use a backup healer, Divine Soul Sorcerer subclass from XGtE can give you what wizard can't.

If your DM throws enemy casters at you all the time and you want a survivable counterspeller, Abjuration Wizard has you covered.

Get attacked all the time and want to have a great AC and concentration? Bladesinger Wizard from SCAG.

Also, does your party need a face or does it need the various knowledge skills?

Really, what are you looking at doing / how do you want to fit into your party?

 

[clearstream]

So, in your opinion, which is better for higher-level play, Wizard or Sorcerer?

Portent vs double Haste... it's not an easy call. If for instance you knew you would have a GWM melee and an SS ranged, the Haste would be ridiculous. If on the other hand you have multiple sources of SoS the Portent will be incredible. Or if your group takes a more attritional approach to rests, a Bladesinger could be amazing.

Overall though, I would probably go Divination Wizard. Deciding what a friend or foe rolls twice a day gives you terrific leverage over the narrative. An option is 2 levels of Wizard (for Diviner) and 8 in Sorcerer.

 

[DM-Rocco]

If you don't want to specialize as much and just want a solid wizard that does a bit of everything, consider War Magic. It's one of those subclasses that is described in a way that doesn't really fit with what it's good for: Ignore Power Surge; it's crappy, but Tactical Wit, Durable Magic, and Arcane Deflection are mechanically really strong (not as much fun as Portent, but...). It's basically a free Alert feat that stacks with the Alert feat, a free Shield that stacks with Shield proficiency, and a free pseudo-Resilient CON that stacks with CON save proficiency.

I kind of dismissed this one because power surge is so crap, but I'll take another look.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Can you give us some criteria for what "better" means to you? Or at least what role of caster you plan on playing?

If you are doing a lot of buffing, Sorcerer's Twin Spell is exceedingly hard to beat. Two people under Greater Invisibility for instance.

If you are looking at flexibility the wizard being able to prepare daily and from a larger pool is unmatched.

If your party lacks healing or could use a backup healer, Divine Soul Sorcerer subclass from XGtE can give you what wizard can't.

If your DM throws enemy casters at you all the time and you want a survivable counterspeller, Abjuration Wizard has you covered.

Get attacked all the time and want to have a great AC and concentration? Bladesinger Wizard from SCAG.

Also, does your party need a face or does it need the various knowledge skills?

Really, what are you looking at doing / how do you want to fit into your party?

Sure, okay, I don't want to be that guy that does all the party buffing. That's not fun. Sure, I don't mind making the Rogue invisible on occasion, but I don't want my only combat role to be buffing other party members...same goes for healing, not my cup of tea.

I do love options, which is why I think the Wizard is the way to go, although the original Divine Soul with Domain added spells would have be great!

The DM has thrown casters at us, but he usually goes with modules and a handful of counter spells is usually enough.

At this level I want to have fun and control combat and either do a crap ton of damage or cast spells that change the landscape of the battlefield in our favor...I also like being tricksey which is why I thought about illusionist, but I think the current DM would be pulling his hair out if I went that route and I don't want to be a total dick, just a partical dick

 

[DM-Rocco]

Portent vs double Haste... it's not an easy call. If for instance you knew you would have a GWM melee and an SS ranged, the Haste would be ridiculous. If on the other hand you have multiple sources of SoS the Portent will be incredible. Or if your group takes a more attritional approach to rests, a Bladesinger could be amazing.

Overall though, I would probably go Divination Wizard. Deciding what a friend or foe rolls twice a day gives you terrific leverage over the narrative. An option is 2 levels of Wizard (for Diviner) and 8 in Sorcerer.

I am currently favoring the idea of Diviner or Lore Master so I can change spell damage into Radiant and increase the DCs of my spells, I like having high DCs...I like fun tricks though to, so right now I am open to ideas.