Abilities scores for an universtal system.

[The Crimson Binome]

But since we're already having trouble with the line between "abilities," "attributes," and "skills," would you save "stats" for a different thread?

If we're going to say that skills are distinct from attributes, then it becomes much more difficult to come up with a list of nine attributes that are both distinct and easy to apply. You have to start down the path of separating manual dexterity away from bodily agility, and that creates issues.

Although, I did once create a system that had nine attributes, each of which controlled three or so skills. More than half of the stats were just affinity for different types of magic, though; and the individual skills under those stats were just spells.

 

[Anoth]

toughness as in Clint Eastwood or balls of steel. Not tough like my mother’s chicken.

Education more for starting skill points or something like that. I like how it works in call of Cthulhu.

grace as in “saved by grace” sort of divine favor. God really likes you.

honor I Could see going up and down

faith for me would be for whatever religious system you follow. Atheist have zero. Alternatively I like an older definition of faith that only used belief indirectly. It wasn’t belief as much as it was the ability to act on your religious beliefs.

the reason I went for no physical stats is because I got tired of every fighter in d&d having a 20 strength or 20 dexterity to be effective. I think tough guys do more damage And can take more damage. So you Can have a tough guy that people fear without being built like Lou Ferigno.

deliberately avoided wisdom and intellect And charisma ecause I think these attributes are easier to roleplay.

If we're going to say that skills are distinct from attributes, then it becomes much more difficult to come up with a list of nine attributes that are both distinct and easy to apply. You have to start down the path of separating manual dexterity away from bodily agility, and that creates issues.

Although, I did once create a system that had nine attributes, each of which controlled three or so skills. More than half of the stats were just affinity for different types of magic, though; and the individual skills under those stats were just spells.

DC MEGS was an interesting game with 9 attributes. And their functions was pretty well defined

dexterity, intelligence, and Influence were acting values

strength, will, and aura were effective values

body, mind, and spirit were resistant values

dexterity, strength, and body were physical attributes

intelligence will and mind were mental attributes

Influence, aura and spirit I think were spiritual attributes

too bad it uses a chart. People hate those

 

[pemerton]

To follow on from @steenan's post, and also @Blue's reference to Cortex, for a fully universal system you might be better of deciding about how many different stats/attributes your mechanical framework can and should support, and then offering advice on how to particularise them for any given genre/theme.

HeroQuest revised is one example of something like this approach. To make the system work, it also has good advice on how (as a GM) to handle generality or specificity of attributes across PCs. (Roughly speaking, when a PC with a more broadlyly-characterised attribute attempts something that falls within the scope of another PC's more narrowly-characterised attribute, the check for the first PC suffers a penalty.)

 

[The Crimson Binome]

DC MEGS was an interesting game with 9 attributes. And their functions was pretty well defined

Okay, but how do you play a character with very high Intelligence and very low Mind, or very high Aura and very low Spirit? What do those stats actually mean, conceptually?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Somebody would rather a little number of attributes and this is right for board games or TTRPGs for +7 children, but here I would rather something between 9 and 12, and using names by d20 system because they are most known or popular. In d20 the "magic" as atributte is according to the class (Int for Wizards, Wis for Clerics, Cha for sorcerers).

Now my list is the six cow: Str, Con, Dex, Cha, Int and Wis, and adding Courage, Acuity (astuteness + perception and Spirit (faith/karma and moral determination). I had thought about Dex beind divided into Agility and Technique (precision, accusary, talent, coordination for prelearnt no-brief actions as playing music, dance, craftwork, repairing machines, disarming traps, aim, complex maneuvers of martial acts), but I have chosen some traits are only substats, working as bonus feat. I have still a open door for Technique as 10th attribute, maybe like an optional trait got with some special feat or racial bonus, and to avoid Dex became too important.

Studies and Knownledge, but also Focus, would be within Wisdom. Wisdom would be for self-control checks for mind-affecting effects not linked with the fear. And my house rule is player can choose between Spirit or other attribute to save check against an attack of supernatural origin.

The concept of size (body mass) from Call of Chulthu is interesting for me. More body mass could helps against poisons.

 

[Lucas Yew]

One thing I'm extremely sure of is, that I will split the fine motor stat and the general quickness stat ASAP. No more hideous God Dexterity/Agility in my vicinity...

Anyway, my take on my "ideal" six would be Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Agility, Intellect, and Presence.

 

[Anoth]

Okay, but how do you play a character with very high Intelligence and very low Mind, or very high Aura and very low Spirit? What do those stats actually mean, conceptually?

Like i said

intelligence would be the acting value. Mind was resistance value. Those are the mechanics. rp is up to the player.

each ability scores was for acting value, effective value, resistance value. Basically to hit, damage, and resist.

 

[Ratskinner]

Not sure of the OP's hopes or attitudes toward the final game design. But, IMO, any universal system would need to take into account the variety of scales and whatnot that any physical-simulationist character traits would have....and that leads you to Champions or any number of other super-complicated systems.

At least, for having a rule set that is comprehensive AND comprehendibly small, you're far better off stepping outside SIM and heading into narrativist or story-reflective mechanics. In a similar vein, there's a thread in the D&D forum where folks are growling about ability scores and MAD. You can skip that whole train of design-conflict, too.

Personally, I think two tacks are most profitable:
1) Go the route of Fate Accelerated. Use "modes" instead of ability scores. (Forceful, Clever, Quick, Sneaky, Flashy, Careful or pick another set of descriptors.) Which is also used in some Cortex+ implementations. This may seem like an odd direction, but it really does open up things like the Clever Fighter. In a similar vein, you can do this with something like "party" roles, a la the 5 man band trope: Leader, Lancer, Smart Guy, Big Guy, Heart. Either way, you this lets you mostly skip the skill-attribute overlap. Bonus: you can use this alongside a traditional rpg core/engine.

2) Go the route of Cortex+ drama and use things like relationships and drives/values as stats for the rolls. This is a little farther along the "Narrativist" route, but seems like its applicable to almost any genre (exception below).

Exception: It all depends on the feel of the game not the genre. I mean, look, if you want some kind of tactical X's and O's game, then just re-flavor Savage Worlds or any number of other universal systems. There's nothing sacred about any of them, and what a given modifier means or doesn't mean is merely a matter of trappings.

Anyway, just my $.02

 

[Tonguez]

Talking about Cortext, I always found the Smallville system to be interesting for its ‘Action Soap Opera’ approach. Character Lifepaths determine Character Relationships (Lois & Clark), Values (Duty, Glory, Love, Truth, Justice, Power) and Assets and it is these in turn which are used to resolve conflicts ie Clark Loves Lois so rolls his Lois die and Love die and is more likely to succeed saving her than he would saving random dude in Nairombi (where he just roles his Duty dice).

Then theres the Stress treks Insecure, Afraid, Angry, Exhausted, and Injured so characters get stressed out of a scene rather than outright beaten to death

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

I'm a big fan of three major groupings - Physical, Mental, Social - and two or three statistics in each group - Raw Power, Skill/Precision, maybe Resistance.

For example, the six stats used by the FFG Star Wars games.
Brawn - your physical strength, agility, health, flexibility, toughness, etc.
Agility - how good you are at affecting the world around you in physical ways.
Intellect - your mental strength, agility, memory, reasoning, etc.
Cunning - how good you are at affecting the world around you in mental ways.
Willpower - your social strength, centredness, sense of self, ability to resist peer pressure and coercion, etc.
Presence - how good you are at affecting the world around you in social ways (your people skills).