Abilities scores for an universtal system.

[pemerton]

Somebody would rather a little number of attributes and this is right for board games or TTRPGs for +7 children

I don't think this is the best attitude for game design. It implies that complexity is per se a virtue in an adult game.

But there are adult-oriented RPGs that have simple attribute arrangements. PCs in Cthulhu Dark have a profession (free descriptor) and Insanity. That's the sum total of its PC build system.

PCs in Wuthering Heights have Rage, Despair and Age/Decrepitude (it's called "Oldness" by the author, whose first language is French)

Prince Valiant supports adult as much as (maybe better than) juvenile play. PCs have Brawn and Presence as their two attributes, and then skills chosen from a list of about 30.

If you're going to have a complex PC build system in a RPG, I think you want a clearer sense of your design goals than "not for children".

Go the route of Fate Accelerated. Use "modes" instead of ability scores. (Forceful, Clever, Quick, Sneaky, Flashy, Careful or pick another set of descriptors.) Which is also used in some Cortex+ implementations. This may seem like an odd direction, but it really does open up things like the Clever Fighter.

In A Wicked Age use 6 attributes: Covertly, Directly, For Others, For Myself, With Love, With Violence. When we played it the zombie's highest attribute was With Love - the walking corpse was driven by a longing to find it's forgotten lover.

Choosing the right set of descriptors goes right back to the question what is the design goal?

 

[GMMichael]

In A Wicked Age use 6 attributes: Covertly, Directly, For Others, For Myself, With Love, With Violence. When we played it the zombie's highest attribute was With Love - the walking corpse was driven by a longing to find it's forgotten lover.

Choosing the right set of descriptors goes right back to the question what is the design goal?

I guess it would be this:

If you were hired to create a open licence TTRPG for all genres, but east to be adapted from other system, what attributes or abilities scores would use? The list would be 9-12, not lesser 6.

My goal is something like a d20 Modern 2.0. with some little changes in the abilities scores, adding more, so that all 3rd Party Publishers would want to use it for their no-medieval fantasy titles.

But the interesting thing is that D&D has 6 "abilities," which are suited for the general medieval fantasy genre. I would think that increasing that number would make a game more specific, versus more general. So if all third party publishers are going to use this system for all genres, shouldn't it have fewer abilities than 6? That was my assumption when I was writing a game, anyway.

For example, GURPS has four "basic attributes." But we know that it doesn't stop there...

Also, In A Wicked Age calls those attributes "forms" because they're not really attributes. The point, that attributes should reflect design goals, is valid. But again, I'm hoping this thread stays on a clear path before we start calling longswords or careers "attributes."

 

[uzirath]

Now my list is the six cow: Str, Con, Dex, Cha, Int and Wis, and adding Courage, Acuity (astuteness + perception and Spirit (faith/karma and moral determination).

I worry that adding it would be hard for most players to distinguish intelligence, wisdom, and acuity. This is where categories of traits can help. Maybe there is a "Mind" stat that has sub-components. By default the components equal the master stat, but they could be adjusted to fine-tune for a particular vision (i.e., creating a book-smart person who is has poor perception).

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My goal is something like a d20 Modern 2.0, enough flexible for all genres(space opera, superheroes, ivestigation against Lovecraftian cults, gothic-punk urban fantasy). Easy to do adaptations from other systems, where new players used to the six sacred cows could feel comfortable. A system the rest of 3rd party publishers would feel confortable to use.

D&D is perfect for dungeon-crawling, but not so good for other games with more investigation or social interactions.

Other idea is some attributes are modular, optional, this means you are free if you want to use them in your game or not. Maybe in a sci-fi game only one PC has Techniche attribute because she is a techy who repairs/fixes machines, or a cofrater (member of a brotherhood, a jedi knight ersatz) with martial maneuvers of light saber. Maybe a DM would rather to use Technique because she wants (munchkin) players to choose between better Agility for Reflex saves or better technique for stealth or to disarm traps, martial maneuvers or drawing runes.

* My own point of view see the differences between Inteligent, Wisdow and Acuity, but maybe others can't. Int is the nerd who goes to the university thanks a scolarship or the chess game champion. Wisdow is the little-grasshopper or master Yoda (or a good psycologist) givin good advices, and acuity is the gansta who knows the scammers' tricks, or the private eye who notices when somebody is lying. .

* To avoid some abuse by munchkins I have thought about two pools of creation points, one for the main abilities scores, and the other for the attributes no-so-useful.

 

[Tonguez]

* My own point of view see the differences between Inteligent, Wisdow and Acuity, but maybe others can't. Int is the nerd who goes to the university thanks a scolarship or the chess game champion. Wisdow is the little-grasshopper or master Yoda (or a good psycologist) givin good advices, and acuity is the gansta who knows the scammers' tricks, or the private eye who notices when somebody is lying. .

* To avoid some abuse by munchkins I have thought about two pools of creation points, one for the main abilities scores, and the other for the attributes no-so-useful.

So in you example what would Wisdom be used for? Grasshopper being all zen and giving out advice isnt a useful in-game shtick, unless its a chance to get hint from or influence the GM. In DnD Wisdom Is Acuity/Perception + Willpower, so what is Wisdom in your schema?

As to modern,I still think Fate Accelerated works well, indeed D20 Modern went down that line of definining classes by core Attribute too

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Wisdow would be psychological maturity, self-control (but for fear checks), temperance, focus, concentration, inner peace, serenity, intrapersonal inteligence, being the person who give good advices, thinking about long-term consequences, hearing voice by Reason before Passions. Almost willpower. The wise notices when a demagoge is using emotional manipulation instead true reasoning.

 

[Bawylie]

Prowess
Tenacity
Judgment
Imagination
Faith
Courage

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Strength
Focus
Influence

Ability scores are active and ablative.

 

[Ratskinner]

In A Wicked Age use 6 attributes: Covertly, Directly, For Others, For Myself, With Love, With Violence. When we played it the zombie's highest attribute was With Love - the walking corpse was driven by a longing to find it's forgotten lover.

Not a bad set.

Choosing the right set of descriptors goes right back to the question what is the design goal?

To some extent, I agree. However, I think switching....dramatic frameworks(?) Is easier than switching genres. That is, if a character's physical simulation stat/mechanics are less detailed or complicated. Translating basic stats between dramatic frameworks seems much less complicated to me. I suspect that translating a Fate Accelerated or Cortex + Drama character between different modes/values+relationships is a matter of knowing the story and character...not really having to know things like a Strength X means you can lift f(X) pounds or whatever. That would give the game the opportunity (if it needs one) to flit between frameworks rather than try to be all things to everyone all at once. You don't have to re-invent f each time.

 

[pemerton]

I think switching....dramatic frameworks(?) Is easier than switching genres.

I didn't get this, even after reading your example. Could you explain again/further?

Thinking about this under my own understanding, I think that switching genres isn't necessarily hard if the basic resolution methods are known. For instance, I use Prince Valiant (Brawn, Presence and skills) for relatively thematically light mediaeval romance. I think it could also be used to do Conan (maybe tweak the skill set a little bit) and light-hearted thievery and probably pirates.

But if someone wanted tactical resolution, or gritty injury and healing, then Prince Valiant won't help whatever the genre. For fantasy/mediaeval, at least, switch to Burning Wheel!