D&D 5E Beasts of the Earth

[WayOfTheFourElements]

A BotE is NOT an ape.

As for apes, have you ever tried training an ape to wear armour and use a shield effectively? When you have done that, come back and show us. These are skills (like speaking English) that an ape CANNOT learn.

Well, first, as you said, it is not an ape. Therefore it might have those proficiencies hidden behind its stat block. It the creature has the ability to assume the form of any animal imaginable, I see no reason it cannot learn to form itself to suit a set of armor.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Exactly, so what prevents the ape from also having those proficiencies? They simply aren't listed in the stat block.

Common sense. An ape doesn't have those proficiencies.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Some do. There are no baby BotEs. There are no flocks of BotEs roaming the land. They appear specifically to rangers as a kind of divine gift.

That's the DMs call. But BotE is a BotE, and it's appearance is purely 100% cosmetic. If it bothers you I recommend you don't allow it in your game.

I'm not sure it bothers me. I simply don't understand it clearly. How can I be bothered by something I cannot define?

Here's what I know from you so far:

Beasts of the Earth. . .

• are magical creatures
• cannot be found naturally
• do not reproduce
• are divine gifts
• are not the animal whose form they take
• have non-functional limb

All I can say is that this is a very strange beast indeed. Isn't it easier to say the the BotE is actually the beast it is pretending to be, but uses the BotE stat block in combat in order to simplify gameplay? An ape BotE is an ape and can do ape things; a wolf BotE is a wolf and can do wolf things, but in combat its attack, AC, movement, etc. is defined by the stat block?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well, first, as you said, it is not an ape. Therefore it might have those proficiencies hidden behind its stat block. It the creature has the ability to assume the form of any animal imaginable, I see no reason it cannot learn to form itself to suit a set of armor.

And it doesn't say fighters can't grow plate mail out of their skin either. First and foremost, the BotE is a CLASS FEATURE. Class features are balanced around them having those stats, not some other stats. That includes AC. If you say "A BoT can wear plate mail and use a shield" you immediately make it much more powerful.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Common sense. An ape doesn't have those proficiencies.

Yes, but player wanted to train the ape? If an ape can be taught sign language, why not teach one to use a club or suit of armor or a shield?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

And it doesn't say fighters can't grow plate mail out of their skin either. First and foremost, the BotE is a CLASS FEATURE. Class features are balanced around them having those stats, not some other stats. That includes AC. If you say "A BoT can wear plate mail and use a shield" you immediately make it much more powerful.

So is allowing the ape to give the finger and pick lice in certain situations - or allowing a halfling to ride its pony companion. Nothing will ever be balanced completely; the game is simply too variable and complex.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

All I can say is that this is a very strange beast indeed.

Yes it is. That is because it is, first and formost A GAME MECHANIC.

Isn't it easier to say the the BotE is actually the beast it is pretending to be, but uses the BotE stat block in combat in order to simplify gameplay?

No, because BotE is not intended to REPLACE a regular beast companion. If you want a companion that can do beast stuff (which would not include wearing armour and using a shield, even for an ape) the PHB rules cover that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So is allowing the ape to give the finger and pick lice in certain situations - or allowing a halfling to ride its pony companion. Nothing will ever be balanced completely; the game is simply too variable and complex.

Those are both covered in standard rules - picking lice is cosmetic, riding an BotE is fine if it is strong enough to carry the rider.

Allowing a substantial boost in AC is not fine, it's a major boost in power.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Yes it is. That is because it is, first and formost A GAME MECHANIC.

No, because BotE is not intended to REPLACE a regular beast companion. If you want a companion that can do beast stuff (which would not include wearing armour and using a shield, even for an ape) the PHB rules cover that.

Interesting. So, in your world, all game mechanics are just game mechanics? They simply do what is in the stat block or ability description and other else? Firebolt can't start a fire? A raging barbarian can't hold open a heavy portcullis can only do so for one round until this companion hit him with a club?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Those are both covered in standard rules - picking lice is cosmetic, riding an BotE is fine if it is strong enough to carry the rider.

Allowing a substantial boost in AC is not fine, it's a major boost in power.

Why is lice-pick cosmetic? I can think of many uses for it. Like starting a lice-picking business or picking poisonous lice out of a characters hair.

Is a lion's roar also cosmetic? Can it not be used as a warning? Can it not strike terror into the lion on's foes?

Where do you draw the line between cosmetic and not cosmetic?