D&D 5E Beasts of the Earth

[Paul Farquhar]

Interesting. So, in your world, all game mechanics are just game mechanics? They simply do what is in the stat block or ability description and other else? Firebolt can't start a fire? A raging barbarian can't hold open a heavy portcullis can only do so for one round until this companion hit him with a club?

Fire bolt certainly can start a fire - it's in the spell description: "A flammable object hit by this spell ignites if it isn't being worn or carried."

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Yes, but player wanted to train the ape? If an ape can be taught sign language, why not teach one to use a club or suit of armor or a shield?

Per the rules, language proficiencies can be taught with downtime training but weapon and armor proficiencies cannot.

Per what seems reasonable to me, there are some things in which animals can't be trained. For instance, even though tool proficiencies can also be taught with downtime training, I wouldn't let the player teach an animal how to use artisan's tools, because it's an animal and it just doesn't have the brain for that. There's no explicit rule saying that you have to be a humanoid or have so much Intelligence to gain a tool proficiency, because the rules are written for humanoid adventurers and such a rule would be a waste of page space in 99% of all cases. So when you're in the 1% case, you've got to make a judgment call.

Now, if you, as DM, do think that it's a reasonable proposition to teach an ape how to fence, go ahead and allow it. I'm not going to stop you, and for all his antipathy to the idea, @Paul Farquhar can't stop you either. But we were asked for advice, and my advice is that there is nothing in the rules which allows this and it sounds implausible and silly.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Fire bolt certainly can start a fire - it's in the spell description: "A flammable object hit by this spell ignites if it isn't being worn or carried."

All right, I chose a bad example. How about produce flame. What about my raging barbarian?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Where do you draw the line between cosmetic and not cosmetic?

When it grants a significant gameplay benefit. A lion roaring could certainly raise the alarm, as could and other sound made by a BotE in whatever form it makes. However, it could not give the "frightened" status.

If you really want to allow it, you ape could wear the armour but gain no AC benefit from it.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Per the rules, language proficiencies can be taught with downtime training but weapon and armor proficiencies cannot.

Per what seems reasonable to me, there are some things in which animals can't be trained. For instance, even though tool proficiencies can also be taught with downtime training, I wouldn't let the player teach an animal how to use artisan's tools, because it's an animal and it just doesn't have the brain for that. There's no explicit rule saying that you have to be a humanoid or have so much Intelligence to gain a tool proficiency, because the rules are written for humanoid adventurers and such a rule would be a waste of page space in 99% of all cases. So when you're in the 1% case, you've got to make a judgment call.

Now, if you, as DM, do think that it's a reasonable proposition to teach an ape how to fence, go ahead and allow it. I'm not going to stop you, and for all his antipathy to the idea, @Paul Farquhar can't stop you either. But we were asked for advice, and my advice is that there is nothing in the rules which allows this and it sounds implausible and silly.

How are armor proficiencies taught? What about weapon proficiencies? If an elf wizard spends 300 years studying how to use a great sword without taking a level of fighter or the weapon training feat, will he simply fail?

I'm not OP. I wouldn't allow it in my game. I'm simply trying to understand your perspective. It seems interesting, but I don't completely understand it.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

All right, I chose a bad example. How about produce flame. What about my raging barbarian?

No, produce flame cannot start a fire - it is a specific benefit of fire bolt (which does not cast any light).

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

When it grants a significant gameplay benefit. A lion roaring could certainly raise the alarm, as could and other sound made by a BotE in whatever form it makes. However, it could not give the "frightened" status.

If you really want to allow it, you ape could wear the armour but gain no AC benefit from it.

But could an enemy have the exact same reaction to the lion's roar without actually taking on the status effect? In other words, does the frightened create the fear or does the fear create the status? I think that is an important question to answer with regards to the lion's roar.

I agree that it might not cause the status effect, but could it simply terrify the opponent enough to cause the exact same mechanical penalty?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

How are armor proficiencies taught? What about weapon proficiencies? If an elf wizard spends 300 years studying how to use a great sword without taking a level of fighter or the weapon training feat, will he simply fail?

There are rules for learning weapon and armor proficiencies - it generally requires 300 hours training and an amout of cash.

That is assuming it is something the character is capable of learning. A human cannot learn to fly without using magic, and ape can never learn Common without magic.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But could an enemy have the exact same reaction to the lion's roar without actually taking on the status effect? In other words, does the frightened create the fear or does the fear create the status? I think that is an important question to answer with regards to the lion's roar.

It would have the same effect of a player character imitating the roar of a lion, no more, no less.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

There are rules for learning weapon and armor proficiencies - it generally requires 300 hours training and an amout of cash.

That is assuming it is something the character is capable of learning. A human cannot learn to fly without using magic, and ape can never learn Common without magic.

Is an ape not capable of using a club or mail? I could see the ape being incapable of donning said armor without assistance, however. I think the ape might be capable of learning to use it properly.