Star Trek Picard SPOILERS thread

[cbwjm]

I agree, but that doesn't mean they all have to look like Michael Dorn! I think they were trying to solve the whole question of why they've looked so different over the years by explaining "there's a lot of different looking Klingons." (Same with Romulans in Picard). Problem is solved going forward, IMO.

Of course, Truth Seeker might say that it's because they didn't want to pay for the license to use the definitive Klingon-look. Maybe that's true!

I recall in ST enterprise that they gave a reason for Klingons who didn't have any brow ridges was due to a based on an enhanced human genetics plague that had ravaged the empire and the cure made the ridges disappear.

In a DS9 episode where they went back in time they asked Worf what was up and he said it was a difficult time in Klingon history which they don't like to talk about.

They've (the writers of the various shows) have definitely thought about the differences fairly early on.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

They've (the writers of the various shows) have definitely thought about the differences fairly early on.

Yeah, I know, but "Different Klingons look different" works better for me. It's simpler, too. (And it works for other alien races, like the Romulans in Picard, just as well.) It also frees them up to have a wider variety of humans play them, too.

 

[DammitVictor]

Realistically, Toxic (in this case) = Anyone who attacks a fan or creator personally because they don't like the direction or content of a work of fiction.

It's worth remembering that if a creator invents a new property you don't like, it doesn't have any effect on the properties you like and it's easy to say that it exists for the people who like it and go on with your life.

If a new creator takes over for a property you like, and consistently changes it in ways you don't like, they're personally responsible for the property you like being erased from the public memory and there's not a goddamned thing you can do about it.

The source of that problem is beyond the scope of this forum... but fans of a property that has changed hands, to its detriment, do perhaps deserve a little more sympathy than they get in these kinds of discussions.

 

[Dire Bare]

Which one of these many variations is the "correct" KIingon, and why?

#6 definitely! He's Worf-tastic!

Not a fan of the latest iteration, as I've said previously. I think that was change for change's sake.

Ugh. The phrase "change for change's sake" is the toxic fan's mantra. Not to pick on you, but NOBODY simply changes things "just because", not in Star Trek, not in D&D (I heard this soooo much during the height of the edition wars). The changes are made to improve the look and story, and whether they are good changes or not is obviously subjective.

Sure about that? The change from TOS to TNG was the most extreme Klingon change there has been in all of Trek history, and yet you say that you think the latter are "the best Klingons". Does that not show that extreme changes frequently do go over extremely well?

While our awareness of toxic fandom is more acute now that we are blessed/cursed by the internet, toxic fans were bitching back in the day about all the changes Next Gen made to the canon, both visually (bumpy Klingon heads) and story. In various interviews, I've heard multiple Next Gen actors comment on the hate they got during the first season or so, and how disheartening it was. It was particularly rough on our favorite teenager in space, Wesley Crusher (Wil Wheaton).

 

[Hussar]

Heh, I remember the issues that people had when Tim Russ played Tuvok on Voyager. A BLACK Vulcan?!!?!!?!!?!! Vulcan's aren't black.

People get things engraved in their brains far too deeply.

 

[Zardnaar]

Heh, I remember the issues that people had when Tim Russ played Tuvok on Voyager. A BLACK Vulcan?!!?!!?!!?!! Vulcan's aren't black.

People get things engraved in their brains far too deeply.

I'm no expert but Vulcans are very close to humans so one could expect human skin tones lol.

When I was a kid the races thing didn't really matter and half the time you couldn't tell anyway due to makeup.

I didn't really get why having a Russian on the crew of TOS was a big deal.

I suppose growing up in NZ we avoid a lot if Americanisms.

 

[Rabulias]

Treks a bit inconsistent. I remember liking First Contact and parts if TNG but mein gott season 1 is a slog. I've had trekkues suggest skipping to season 3 of TNG pick it up from there.

Yeah, TNG season 1 is awful, season 2 gets a little better, but by season 3 they have found their footing and it is pretty solid on through season 7, IMO. If you can grit your teeth and get through them, seasons 1 and 2 do introduce some characters and history that play in to later (better) stories.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, TNG season 1 is awful, season 2 gets a little better, but by season 3 they have found their footing and it is pretty solid on through season 7, IMO. If you can grit your teeth and get through them, seasons 1 and 2 do introduce some characters and history that play in to later (better) stories.

Might have to try again. It's my wife her opinion is "life's to short for bad TV".

My tolerance for pain is a bit higher but she will pull the plug fairly fast esp if we have other stuff to watch.

Best of TNG is better, overall DS9 is better?

 

[Ryujin]

While our awareness of toxic fandom is more acute now that we are blessed/cursed by the internet, toxic fans were bitching back in the day about all the changes Next Gen made to the canon, both visually (bumpy Klingon heads) and story. In various interviews, I've heard multiple Next Gen actors comment on the hate they got during the first season or so, and how disheartening it was. It was particularly rough on our favorite teenager in space, Wesley Crusher (Wil Wheaton).

You're right, it's not the right expression. It's more that old theatrical practice of "putting my own stamp on it." It's both to show ownership and because critics tend to think that if a property doesn't evolve in some way, even something like a Shakespearean play, it's "tired and old."

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

He had the Worf problem. They told you (but didn't show you) that he was tough. Then showed that bad guys wee tough by having them beat him. All the time.

Also see Jaime Lannister - greatest swordsman in the realm, my arse! Never saw a shred of evidence to prove that! They really needed to show that from time to time rather than just tell us, because he got beaten constantly.

At least Worf had Deep Space Nine going for him, there he got to show off his combat skills. (Less so other Klingons - the DS9 command staff and Cardassians like Dukat and Garak were clearly superior to the average Klingon in melee combat. Cardassian Officer and Federation Officer are clearly OP classes.)