Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Paul Farquhar]

Dune? Not even a little. There is no magic in Dune whatsoever. That's about as solidly an SF novel as it gets.

Dune is pure Clarke's law. There is nothing in Dune apart from stillsuits and thumpers that can be extrapolated from existing science or technology. Using drug induced precognition to navigate through hyperspace? I don't think so. Forcefields you can stab through by moving slowly? Magic!

There's no magic in Stranger things. It's pure SF.

Same thing. There is no real world science that can explain 11's abilities. It's magic.

 

[Krachek]

The part of my brain that process Fantasy don’t make difference between Dune and Lord of the Ring.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The part of my brain that process Fantasy don’t make difference between Dune and Lord of the Ring.

Dune is the one Anakin Skywalker hates.

 

[Krachek]

Dune is the one Anakin Skywalker hates.

what! You’re telling me that The lord of the Ring is not a Sith lord!

 

[Kobold Avenger]

The X-men don't have wizards, nor do they combat magical stuff, usually. Doctor Strange generally isn't dealing with Skrulls.

Out of the related X-teams off the top of my head there's Magik, Danielle Moonstar, Pixie, and Meggan who do have magical abilities of some sort. Magik is sort of in the X-men league now instead of the New Mutants because she's one of the generals. Apocalypse who's now sort of one of the leaders of the X-Men, is a sorcerer on top of all his other abilities, he definitely multiclassed over those thousand years of his life.

 

[Hussar]

Dune is pure Clarke's law. There is nothing in Dune apart from stillsuits and thumpers that can be extrapolated from existing science or technology. Using drug induced precognition to navigate through hyperspace? I don't think so. Forcefields you can stab through by moving slowly? Magic!

Same thing. There is no real world science that can explain 11's abilities. It's magic.

Sorry, that's not how it works. I mean, you cannot possibly have warp drives either, but, that doesn't make Star Trek fantasy. Just because something cannot be explained by current science does not make it magic.

It's also not how SF is defined against Fantasy. The difference has very little to do with trope and mostly to do with theme. Fantasy is at its heart based on morality tales. SF is much more concerned with ethics. Or, to put it another way, in a fantasy story, no one cares how human an orc is, but, in SF, that's a core concept of a LOT of stories from Flowers for Algernon to Star Trek to all sorts of others.

Out of the related X-teams off the top of my head there's Magik, Danielle Moonstar, Pixie, and Meggan who do have magical abilities of some sort. Magik is sort of in the X-men league now instead of the New Mutants because she's one of the generals. Apocalypse who's now sort of one of the leaders of the X-Men, is a sorcerer on top of all his other abilities, he definitely multiclassed over those thousand years of his life.

Heh. Just goes to show how out of touch I am with comic books. You are, of course, right.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Dune is pure Clarke's law. There is nothing in Dune apart from stillsuits and thumpers that can be extrapolated from existing science or technology. Using drug induced precognition to navigate through hyperspace? I don't think so. Forcefields you can stab through by moving slowly? Magic!

Same thing. There is no real world science that can explain 11's abilities. It's magic.

I have consumed neither of these media (yeah I know) but depending on what you mean by "slowly" then the forcefield might be sciency. If it blocks vision and somehow gives the air a thick surface tension, then a bullet striking it could be stopped while a knife could go through it.


But, I agree with your general premise.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's also not how SF is defined against Fantasy. The difference has very little to do with trope and mostly to do with theme. Fantasy is at its heart based on morality tales. SF is much more concerned with ethics. Or, to put it another way, in a fantasy story, no one cares how human an orc is, but, in SF, that's a core concept of a LOT of stories from Flowers for Algernon to Star Trek to all sorts of others.

I'm going to say that you are being far to broad and that ends up with you being wrong here.

Yes, some fantasy is based off of morality tales, but Urban Fantasy clearly isn't as it often takes pieces from Noir and that is all about ethics and shades of grey.

And I've read a few fantasy stories set in the medieval periods that do the same.


And also, I'm not sure what you mean by sci-fi being concerned with "ethics" and that somehow being different from morality, unless you are talking black and white vs grey. And there are plenty of Sci-Fi stories with black and white settings. Terminator comes to mind, as skynet and the robots sent to hunt the humans are never seen as "morally grey". Matrix is much the same. Independence Day, I mean, anything with a "the aliens are coming to kill us because they are evil" is black and white.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I define the genres loosely as follows...

Fantasy: Has an element where in the world there is a "power" available to some or all that isn't available to the masses.and which defies "Real World" rules. Having precognition, telepathy, or other powers that aren't reproducible and mass buildable makes it fantasy. Teleporters in Star Trek aren't magic because you could conceivably go down to Home Depot and buy one in that universe. Eleven in Stranger Things has magical mental powers that can't be explained or purposefully reproduced.

SciFi is easier to define. It just has to have elements of technology that do not currently exist but could conceivably exist in the future. Opening the portals in Stranger Things is a scifi element. It's clearly a machine doing the work. Russia copied the technology. You can't open a door to another dimension using an extrapplation of real world technology.

You could make the argument that Spock is using magic with the Vulcan Mind Meld and you would be right. It is such a small and insignificant portion of the lore that I round Star Trek up to being sci-fi.

 

[dave2008]

I'm going to say that you are being far to broad and that ends up with you being wrong here.

Yes, some fantasy is based off of morality tales, but Urban Fantasy clearly isn't as it often takes pieces from Noir and that is all about ethics and shades of grey.

And I've read a few fantasy stories set in the medieval periods that do the same.


And also, I'm not sure what you mean by sci-fi being concerned with "ethics" and that somehow being different from morality, unless you are talking black and white vs grey. And there are plenty of Sci-Fi stories with black and white settings. Terminator comes to mind, as skynet and the robots sent to hunt the humans are never seen as "morally grey". Matrix is much the same. Independence Day, I mean, anything with a "the aliens are coming to kill us because they are evil" is black and white.

I haven't read the Elric books, but I have read some Corum tales. And they are fantasy stories with heavy shades of grey I would say.